pouët.net

-"too bad about poser models"
-"learn how to model"
-"poser sucks. your demo sucks"

What the heck is the big deal? As long as the model doesn't look obviously default I figure it's all about the art form. A means to an end. Why doesn't anybody moan about photos in demos? Or the constand barrage of nakid chicks!? (acually no, leave the nakid chicks)

so where is the "art" at using poser?
its as lame like "repainting" pr0npics

repainting pr0n rulez!!!
we need more pr0n in demoz like inthis beauty!! ;))

anyways, the same goes with
-cubes, -ducks, -teapots, -beethovens, -tori, but who cares, about the stupid whining as long as the demo is great.
the art is in the design, and in the composition of the demo as a whole.

Poser sucks. It's not art.

Tomcat: Shut it. I'd like to quote what everyones favourite troll Stefan wrote for this prod.
EVERYTHING IS ART!!

ART IS EVERYTHING!!

NOW THATS WHY YOU DONT UNDERSTAND!

i can't see why poser stuff is not art... You just have to judge it on the expressiveness of the pose, the animation and the composition etc rather than on the model. Take a look at some of the early 20th century artists, they painted people that looked like shit but you could see a whole lot about them from the posture...

Same goes for cubes and all the rest as foolman says. Look a bit beyond the obvious 'its a cube, i've seen it before'

poser is like demopaja. you use poser because you lack the skills to model a human body. you use demopaja because you can't code. it's that simple.

MRI cant code :P

you use 3dstudio because you don't can't write your own modelling tool.
you use photoshop beacuse you can't do big glowy blurry effects by pixelling.
you use deluxe paint 'cos you can't pixel with a hex-editor.
you use C-compilers because you can't manage a demo-framework in asm.
you use asm-compilers because you can't make a demo by machine code.
you use computers because you make demos without it.
*sheesh*

heh. pouet stripped out the backslash (sux).
"because you don't want to / can't write your own modelling tool"

poser(s) are overrated!

it's the same with everything, you use the best tools for the job. If you want a realistic human model, and you have only enough time for a shit one, you use poser and spend the time on the important stuff.

And for that matter, if demopaja is good enough to do the demo you're making, why the fuck would you code your own system? Masochism maybe? or too much spare time? Perhaps coding your own compiler would be a good idea too, and all the stuff gargaj mentioned, if using a tool for a job it's suited too is so lame.

As long as you don't lie, and claim you modelled Poser figures, then I don't see the problem. It's like everything else - you give credit where it's due.

Besides, who really decides what is acceptable and what is not?

using non-self-made tools raises much more quality expectations. at least for me.
i mean, i won't go hip-hip-hurray for a rotating human model if it's poser'd. i won't praise default 3ds max textures either, same goes for demopaja, etc.
we saw those a couple of times.
but if your demo kicks ass, then it kicks ass, nevertheless the stuff used (see: vip2)

Patrick: I have to admit that looks pretty amazing, but I guess I'm more impressed with Poser's capabilities than the artist's talent, and that's one of the downsides of letting software do too much of the work.

I don't really like the pic in Patrick's link.

In VIP2 though, the models used are only a fraction of the work done to create that magical scene. If it weren't for the lighting used, the switching cameras, the flying leaves and the synchronization to the music's snare drums, that scene would feel cheap and empty instead of brilliantly emotional.

If it weren't for the lighting used, the switching cameras, the flying leaves and the synchronization to the music's snare drums, that scene would feel cheap and empty instead of brilliantly emotional.

mute the sound and you STILL have an empty scene there :))
vip2's success is mostly because fear factory writes great songs :)

making a character model in poser is like making a song with nothing but pre-made-by-somebody-else loops. More credit goes to the people who made the loops and the people who made Poser, IMO. It's not "wrong" to use such methods, but nobody's going to praise you for it I'm sure

As you already know full well, the only valid tool for demo making is a hex editor. Oh, and a computer. (It helps if you build the computer yourself.)

some days I think people take the demoscene way to seriously.. call it art if it makes you feel better and makes your life as a scener feel more useful.

I'm not saying demos might not be art I'm just trying to say that sometimes I feel like you guys are making a way too big deal out of this whole thing.

then again I'm too lazy to read the whole thread so I might be off-topic but I don't care.

peace.

s tec, did you make your own hex editor?

violator: yeah, you're off-topic.

well well well. who cares whether 3dsmax/poser/demopaja/and_so_on was used in the making of a demo? the only things that matter are, I think:

- do I like this demo? yes. fine, I'll watch it again.
- do I like this demo? no. fine, I won't watch it again.

viewing pleasure is all.

violator: exactly my thoughts lately :)