New demoeffects?
category: general [glöplog]
What was the latest effect u saw in demos or intros that u would consider as a new effect or something special?
In the earlier days of the demoscene there were introduced new effects and we usually could see some written words in the production that stated it was a new effect. Nowadays noone do that, so i am just curious to know what is the latest effects that can be considered as new or innovative.
In the earlier days of the demoscene there were introduced new effects and we usually could see some written words in the production that stated it was a new effect. Nowadays noone do that, so i am just curious to know what is the latest effects that can be considered as new or innovative.
blah blah scene is dead blah pc suxx yadda yadda.
seriously.. can we accept the fact that the way demos are made has changed from 10 years ago? If you consider a "new effect" to be something visually unique, then there have been tons of them, groups just don't pop up "coming up next" screens or boxes in the corner of the screen anymore.
seriously.. can we accept the fact that the way demos are made has changed from 10 years ago? If you consider a "new effect" to be something visually unique, then there have been tons of them, groups just don't pop up "coming up next" screens or boxes in the corner of the screen anymore.
it was bullshit anyway when people stated the effects :) (larusse shading and all that ;)
I hear 3D is the next big thing ... *giggle*
You said what now?
Maybe with the advent of shaders (PS2.0 level) democoders can create more unique effects and renderingstyles (without resorting to software rendering). Dunno.
crystal dream 2 by triton, vectorslime in part 2 - one of the best/coolest effects ever.
Shaders are not an effect ... it's a tool ...
People should get into their maths again, and think outside of the GPU ...
People should get into their maths again, and think outside of the GPU ...
i think they should think INTIDE the gpu a bit more.. you can do hillerious stuff in there if you really use it.
INSIDE . ( i really need an edit function :)
That's a good question. You can't think easilly of something these days. Perhaps radiosity..
METAL SHADING!!!!
I find at least as much new effects in nowadays demos as in the good old days. Just that people don´t give them names anymore, or even try to hide them (like in fr-025, or didn´t you use render-to-texture for the many people so that it looks like a billion triangle screen, and make me go mad, Chaos?)
Or take fr-030. You can see this "mesh deformation" or whatever you want to call it in the final very well. Amazing. Or this strange deformation thing in dreamchild, or the funny rendering in ix. Or...
And Optimus, even though radiosity is about 20 years old, I wouldn´t actually call it an effect ;-)
Or take fr-030. You can see this "mesh deformation" or whatever you want to call it in the final very well. Amazing. Or this strange deformation thing in dreamchild, or the funny rendering in ix. Or...
And Optimus, even though radiosity is about 20 years old, I wouldn´t actually call it an effect ;-)
Yes, but I have lately seen it in demos.
It's hard to find new effects, because they can be just combinations of the old ones. I don't find the mesh deformations or diferrent kind of rendering as new effects.
Or, I could say that 32 degrees in the shade introduces a new original effect?
I don't know. It's hard today to decide. At times of scrollers, the 1st rotozoomer was something completely new. After the fire effect, a combination of zooming to produce feedback effects was also feeling new and original. Then all the 3d shading techniques reinvented (flat, lampert, gouraud, phong, env-map, etc.). There were new things to be seen. Today, I either don't have the imagination to think of a completely new effect or I might had the same feeling ten years ago. I don't know..
It's hard to find new effects, because they can be just combinations of the old ones. I don't find the mesh deformations or diferrent kind of rendering as new effects.
Or, I could say that 32 degrees in the shade introduces a new original effect?
I don't know. It's hard today to decide. At times of scrollers, the 1st rotozoomer was something completely new. After the fire effect, a combination of zooming to produce feedback effects was also feeling new and original. Then all the 3d shading techniques reinvented (flat, lampert, gouraud, phong, env-map, etc.). There were new things to be seen. Today, I either don't have the imagination to think of a completely new effect or I might had the same feeling ten years ago. I don't know..
most people would never ever notice a new effect without those small "mymotherknowswhatkindof shading" and "4.5gazillion polygons" titles...
Nowadays the days of those titles are over ('xcept the metaball count to start stupid whining :)) ), so we can argue if there is anything new or not.
There is. Anyways. I consider an effect new if it looks like a new one, not when the coder says so... (i don't care a new technique for flat-shaded rotating cubes. That's not a new effect, that's a technique, which might be impressive as a whitepaper, but wont stand as an effect.)
Nowadays the days of those titles are over ('xcept the metaball count to start stupid whining :)) ), so we can argue if there is anything new or not.
There is. Anyways. I consider an effect new if it looks like a new one, not when the coder says so... (i don't care a new technique for flat-shaded rotating cubes. That's not a new effect, that's a technique, which might be impressive as a whitepaper, but wont stand as an effect.)
Quote:
METAL SHADING!!!!
\o/ FINALLY! \o/
Optimus: I disagree. A fact is that nowadays effects are much more complicated in their structure then they were before. A rotozoomer is hard to do on a low-end machine, still its idea is simple enough to be understood by everyone.
But now take that mesh deformation in fr-030. What you probably didn´t notice is, that there are added new triangles to the mesh while it deforms. So you might say: "So what, then it´s some more polys, who cares". But you are so wrong. It is extremely difficult (at least for me) to change the structure of your meshes, and not just move around some edges. And that´s why I call it a new effect, it is programmed completely differently than everything before. And you cannot achieve the same result with old techniques. Go and try ;-)
You know, when you show a 5 year old boy different demos, then every demo has the same effect: "video". For you, all this is 3D, looking different, but all the same to code. But the truth is, that some things that may seem all the same (codewise) for you, are more different to program than a rotozoomer and a scroller. I heard someone say that fr-030 is just another intro with Chaos engine, and stated this was lame. He didn´t even notice how much the engine had to be changed. That´s sad.
I probably have too much of a coders view here, but how would you decide what a new effect is otherwise? Today all the effects are so much mixed together and so much additional eye candy is added, that you might consider every demo a new effect, if you go for the visuals only. So I say something is a new effect if its visuals can´t be achieved with old techniques.
But now take that mesh deformation in fr-030. What you probably didn´t notice is, that there are added new triangles to the mesh while it deforms. So you might say: "So what, then it´s some more polys, who cares". But you are so wrong. It is extremely difficult (at least for me) to change the structure of your meshes, and not just move around some edges. And that´s why I call it a new effect, it is programmed completely differently than everything before. And you cannot achieve the same result with old techniques. Go and try ;-)
You know, when you show a 5 year old boy different demos, then every demo has the same effect: "video". For you, all this is 3D, looking different, but all the same to code. But the truth is, that some things that may seem all the same (codewise) for you, are more different to program than a rotozoomer and a scroller. I heard someone say that fr-030 is just another intro with Chaos engine, and stated this was lame. He didn´t even notice how much the engine had to be changed. That´s sad.
I probably have too much of a coders view here, but how would you decide what a new effect is otherwise? Today all the effects are so much mixed together and so much additional eye candy is added, that you might consider every demo a new effect, if you go for the visuals only. So I say something is a new effect if its visuals can´t be achieved with old techniques.
Quote:
crystal dream 2 by triton, vectorslime in part 2 - one of the best/coolest effects ever.
indeed, this effect looked great. But i got terribly disappointed when i discovered it was just a remake of an effect from the demo global trash by silents that ran on amiga 500 basically. ;-)
"What you probably didn´t notice is, that there are added new triangles to the mesh while it deforms."
Ummm, are you entirely sure about that?
Ummm, are you entirely sure about that?
actually, we don't insert new vertices in candytron. we just hide around the problem pretty well.
what the "candytron" engine does is that it seperates all topology operations (indexbuffer) from the vertex operations. we can apply any mesh operation in any order and animate everything, as long as the connectionn of vertices does not change during the animation (we explaned that on "flipcode iotd").
an example is: take a mesh, bone-animate it, subdivide it, extrude some tentacles, subdivide it again. the whole thing can be animated in realtime because all the slow topology calculations are done only once, while the fast vertex-animations are done every frame.
is this a new effect? no, it's an engine, a technology. but it can be used to make an effect. many effects. may be there are simpler ways of getting that special tentacle-babe effect, but developing this engine is what chalanged me and ryg.
may be that's the problem: today it's just not good to draw a cube or a teapot with some cool shading. putting it all together is the problem, and that's not called "effect", that what an engine does.
what the "candytron" engine does is that it seperates all topology operations (indexbuffer) from the vertex operations. we can apply any mesh operation in any order and animate everything, as long as the connectionn of vertices does not change during the animation (we explaned that on "flipcode iotd").
an example is: take a mesh, bone-animate it, subdivide it, extrude some tentacles, subdivide it again. the whole thing can be animated in realtime because all the slow topology calculations are done only once, while the fast vertex-animations are done every frame.
is this a new effect? no, it's an engine, a technology. but it can be used to make an effect. many effects. may be there are simpler ways of getting that special tentacle-babe effect, but developing this engine is what chalanged me and ryg.
may be that's the problem: today it's just not good to draw a cube or a teapot with some cool shading. putting it all together is the problem, and that's not called "effect", that what an engine does.
nystep: and you cannot run it on a reaaaally slow computer (or rather, a computer with a reaaally slow graphics-card) since the effect is framerate-dependant (it uses the previously drawn frames to calculate the new ones), but that never bothered me. :)
chaos: i agree that an engine is not an effect in it self and nowadays people tend to focus more on the overall image than in the good old "display something, get applause, improve it a bit, get some more applause, change it"-times. i miss those times really..
chaos: i agree that an engine is not an effect in it self and nowadays people tend to focus more on the overall image than in the good old "display something, get applause, improve it a bit, get some more applause, change it"-times. i miss those times really..
I'd say the problem with 'new effects' now, is not that there are none, it's more that the effect is usually used as part of a scene. In the old days, you'd take your new effect, and give it it's own screen so it gets the attention it deserves. Now, it's used for a reason. Like the subdivision stuff in fr-030, it's not used to show off subdivision, it's used to show off the babe. So you see the babe, not the effect.
Topology, heh. It's funny when I read terms from mathematics which I don't know what is it all about :) We had a lesson about Topology but shit, I never got to understand what it is all about. Too theoritical..
An original combination of an old rare effect in 3d, is in FR030 also, but in the first version (It was removed from the final, pitty because I found that one very original :) It's the flood effect, like taking one scanline and writting it from that line till the end line of the screen, which could be achieved on 8bits with raster hardware effects, but now it was so funny for me to see it in 3d applied on the girl only. It might be easy but I haven't seen such idea before :)
An original combination of an old rare effect in 3d, is in FR030 also, but in the first version (It was removed from the final, pitty because I found that one very original :) It's the flood effect, like taking one scanline and writting it from that line till the end line of the screen, which could be achieved on 8bits with raster hardware effects, but now it was so funny for me to see it in 3d applied on the girl only. It might be easy but I haven't seen such idea before :)
If we could say new effect, then perhaps this one? It's called fractal flame, something I have never seen before. Looks very original :)
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=10896
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=10896
i'm sure i've seen fractal flame in a demo recently, can't think what it is tho (possibly it's in doomsday by complex, but i think it was in something else too)
But i'm pretty sure it's a 256b first
But i'm pretty sure it's a 256b first