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pyrux...you know why i feel this way dont you? Uwe Boll, the 9-5 worker of movies..nuff said

iblis: so basically what you are saying is - you're prepared to buy something if it's perfect? seeing as nothing is perfect, that doesnt really ensure a healthy profit forcast for pc games.

it's like saying.. the last time i test drove a car what i really wanted was a car that could bake me a cake every day. and then fly me to the moon. and then provide me with more cake when i got to the moon. and then parachute me back to earth on a big parachute made of cake.
i was very disappointed. so i didnt pay for it. i still kept it though.

Smash: you forgot that it also needs to run without fuel since gasoline is expensive and he only has water.

no im prepared to buy something that is as advertised, im prepared to buy something which works as advertised or just as intended. And I do spend quite a bit of money on games yearly. In the range of 2-4000dkr, depending on the releases (that i first download because of bad experiences with demos). I then sell those that arent "classics" so i dont have to fill my flat with game boxes, but at any given time i have apx. 15 new-fairly new titles + my classics catalogue.

So it doesnt have to be perfect, but working as intended and advertised will get you a long way with me, that is for sure.

and about doing something merely for the money with little passion. I dont listen to most music in the radio because it lacks passion, its just one single hit money cow after another, and those who arent are the giants who shapeshifts indifinately to stay in the spotlight, but their lack of passion for what they do, and their love for the money and addiction to the spotlight is obvious. Im not blaming someone for "just having a job", but then obviously i AM talking to the wrong people. So where are the game "designers", where can i adress the management to whom all things bad apprently applies?

thats the point, i dont keep or even play extensively games i download unless i go and buy them. And if the car was advertised as doing all those things, fuck yeah i expect it to do those things and nothing but!

if the product genuinely doesnt work as advertised - i.e. it's unplayably buggy or doesnt run on a config it should work on - you're usually within your consumer rights to take it back to the shop and get a refund.

then again, if it was advertised as "a great game" and you thought it was shit, i doubt you can get your money back on those grounds.

that actually not true, EB games for one does not EVER give money back EVER. You buy it, shits your problem now talk to, and blame the publisher is the answer. And if you need to download a 500MB patch for it to work just as intended, nevermind as advertised, have you really bought a full game?



lol, you know that this is not what im talking about silly willy.

btw,

puryx: gamers don't see all the details of the teamwork behind a AAA title, but many do appreciate the hardwork, they read and talk about all the details of the advanced technologies and artistic assets. I mean, come on, 'some' games are even sold not because people are fond of their gameplay or story or whatever else, but because they are supposed to use their machines to the max, mass marketing does wonders ;)


xenusion: mass piracy on PC is a problem, yes. BUT it would be a major strategic error to focus on it, because :

1) attacking your own customers or making their gamer's life harder is never a good move.

2) you can't compel childrens and students to buy all their games, they are under the social and commercial pressure of massive marketing but they usually don't have the needed purchase power, their incomes don't match those relatively high ones of game developers or publishers... usually the more money you get, the less time you have to play.

3) games are unpredictable and complex entertainment business, aka not vital goods, you have to make people get in love with them, like the musical industry.

if you sell a product without any soul through a big corporation like EA, people won't feel any regret to pirate it... whereas games like Oblivion, Stalker, Bioshock or even MGS4 do have souls, some of their designers have turnt into superstars! i myself feel like a happy sheep for having spent 60 euros on GTA4 (after having burnt the internet leak) even if rockstar games is one of the richest studios around, in so far as the gaming and artistic experience is just awesome, in all aspects!

that's why games have to bring a magic emotional touch that can't be found in a hollywood blockbuster, the one that builds a community around them. and the multiplayer interactivity could help a lot, and online authorization is more crackerproof :)

4) cracking and 'releasing' on PC is a tradition, a hobby, a joy, a freedom, a sandbox, a competition, a whole scene you know :p, you can't suddenly deny all this venerable culture.

Zest: I also argumented for that fact a bit in one of my posts - almost no one wants to buy a new released game that does not take advantage of the latest hardware, and thus (most) developers will of course target their game for the latest hardware available, which also will help the game to "survive" in the market a year or two.

I don't think that we're talking piracy as an issue here, but more that one should not expect the following:

1. Games are made of love and passion (this is bullshit!) - I would say (from my own experiences) that way more than 50% of a game is PURE HARD WORK, which could of course also be defined as passion - but nevertheless hard work, that you would probably not want to do in your own spare time.

2. It is ok to pirate a game, and tell the developers that it's shit. Look - if you got a piece of shit for free, why not move to the next game and see if that one is shit? There are plenty of games to "study" and play out there - if a game is bad, don't buy it - and either the studio will die or they will aim to make better games, ok?

iblis, imho you have a fair point about not trusting game demos, and people picking on that obviously have not read all your posts (which you can't blame them for though - theres a lot).

however, you also demand that game developers put all their passion into their work. just because that's what you expect from yourself in any job can't mean you expect it from others, that's their choice alone. trying to be good at something, getting good pay, putting some effort and not slacking off, sure enough. but attacking elsewhere for working a healthy 9 to 5 is just plain silly.

that is not entirely true tho, but properbly generally so...bethesda openly admits that fallout 3 will be lacking visually compared to other titles, even titles released last year, the interviewee singled out crysis, but the point was obvious enough. Expect a good game, but dont expect to be blown away by the mechanics. The honesty of this statement iis a really nice breath of fresh air and yes, im going to buy it without downloading it or getting a demo beforehand, this is one of those games that i just know that i want regardless.

same with clear sky when its out. Stalker wasnt perfect, and by God it had many errors, but there just was something about it...a ...dare i say it...passion, that was addictive.

Passion in my world is altso hard work, it is following a passionate idea to its execution, to its end. Passion in art is said to be 5% inspiration and 95% hard work. So its not like i expect a game maker to sit and love every minute of work, but i do expect him to have the integrity to follow it through, and if other forces prevent him/her form that, to shout at them atleast.

skrebbel: exactly - even the job of your dreams have long periods during which it's just plain hard work. Nothing will ever change that fact.

Hell, even doing a demo or an intro have long periods of plain hard work :)

skrebbel you know me, i put things on the edge mate ;)

I would like to add that I've been indeed working unhealthy and "passionate" hours on some projects, but I flat-out refuse to do it anymore since there's just no point besides some column total on some excel sheet lining up a bit better somewhere, and of that benefit, I see very little if nothing.

sure thing. i just wanted you to understand that if you knew preacher you'd have never attacked him like that. if there's one scener with the word "passion" fucking written on his forehead, it's him.

that one was for iblis, of course

puryx: personally i don't insult xenusion at all, i've found that crysis art is gorgeous. But iblis is not wrong when he states that crysis won't run on most machines at the advertised quality... i mean that Crytek boss is a bit hypocritical when he blames the PC gamers for pirating crysis, for not buying his cold hollywoodesque production, for not buying such a blessed gift for their crappy configs...

he should have assumed that crysis is a übertechnical game and thus wouldn't sell as much and quickly as other AAA bestsellers.

No, you were talking about consoles vs. pcs... maybe.

iblis: i 100% agree with you on Stalker, the game wasn't perfect when released (and specially compared to the virtual game promised by its devs), rather a DX8 game than a DX9 or DX10 one, but it was so ambitious and fresh and immersive and mindblowing that you could gladly forgive all that! Same thing for Boiling Point (Xenus).

skrebbel, point taken. Preacher i felt you was wrongly accusing me of stealing because i use downloading as an "honest demo" before i buy, and i got offended and pissed off with you. A.creed was used as an example and i can see how that was a bad move given that i didnt end up buying that game after trying it out for a couple of hours, i just deleted it again. accept my appology please.

xernobyl: where the fuck was I talking about consoles vs. PC's?

Apology accepted. And I was not accusing you of stealing (I even said that as far as my products are concerned, I'm happy if people like and pirate them), what I said was that first taking a game and then whining about the game developers being this and that is pretty low in my book. Trust me, every single game developer wants to make the game good, and you can rest assured that if the game sucks or is not ready, they know it better than anyone else (personally, on a recent project, I kept complaining all the time that these schedules are just not realistic).

Unfortunately all business decisions even in the game industry are made by the people with the suits, and they don't tend to respect the developers much at all. And for the developer, throwing yourself into the line of fire and heroically sacrificing your private life and family time for the shareholders without seeing a penny for your trouble is just silly. And without going Marxist, it's also pissing in your own kitchen sink since then they expect it from you. Every single time. Everywhere.

I guess my real question is then... how can we, the gamers and game consumers address these people, as to get them of your back? The way i see it, to stop buying games because the publisher is an asshole *cough*EA*cough*, doesnt that end up hurting those that youd actually like to support. The individual game studios themself?