NVScene 2008!
category: general [glöplog]
"crawling through the dust"? what the fuck?
these people went through all the trouble of filling out a web-form and now they don't get delivered there hardware immediately? (that is, except the ones who registered early and who did get the hardware at bp, but nevermind them). truly, their lives are filled with endless misery ever since that fateful day. i can't even imagine the pain they're going through.
these people went through all the trouble of filling out a web-form and now they don't get delivered there hardware immediately? (that is, except the ones who registered early and who did get the hardware at bp, but nevermind them). truly, their lives are filled with endless misery ever since that fateful day. i can't even imagine the pain they're going through.
I don't think such a reaction is needed. If ntsc wasn't aware that effort is being made to get the demobox to him, perhaps more communication is needed. On the other hand, you could just says "fine, fuck off" when he makes stupid demands.
i like how maali engrified "door het stof gaan" :)
and +1 parapete.
ntsc out of line, sure, but communication is a tad lacking as i said earlier and nvidia must be in this for something. i simply refuse to believe that it is pure goodwill of any kind.
and as such they could do with a little more professionalism when it comes to organizing all this.
and +1 parapete.
ntsc out of line, sure, but communication is a tad lacking as i said earlier and nvidia must be in this for something. i simply refuse to believe that it is pure goodwill of any kind.
and as such they could do with a little more professionalism when it comes to organizing all this.
niels: engrified? it's a dutchism! :)
ryg: you're misreading me and pointing at the wrong process. i somewhat backed up rez's statement, yet more generally speaking that 'doing a demo when there's free hardware involved' attracts people in a whole different way that 'let's enter assembly and hope i'll win 30 fingerprint readers cos i really need them!' and well, i just gave it my personal twist that i dont fancy this direction that the scene is going to. getting big players for sponsorship is one thing, but these Intel compos and nVision stuff is just not what i think is good for the scene, it creates elitist gaps in a time where the scene is already deteriorating.
ryg: you're misreading me and pointing at the wrong process. i somewhat backed up rez's statement, yet more generally speaking that 'doing a demo when there's free hardware involved' attracts people in a whole different way that 'let's enter assembly and hope i'll win 30 fingerprint readers cos i really need them!' and well, i just gave it my personal twist that i dont fancy this direction that the scene is going to. getting big players for sponsorship is one thing, but these Intel compos and nVision stuff is just not what i think is good for the scene, it creates elitist gaps in a time where the scene is already deteriorating.
i think it's just fine if they throw their own compos but they should get their fucking shit together and not let otherwise probably already very busy sceners run the show just because it's cheap.
so, there, i said it :)
so, there, i said it :)
that.. i dont agree with. those 'already very busy sceners' still have a brain, therefore can choose themselves for participating, next to that, you do need insiders as nvidia probably doesnt know themselves how to get where.
needing insiders for an advisory role has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of work gloom talks about. thats the kind of stuff a company with lotsa people, cash, buildings and post rooms can take care of.
does bureaucracy ring a bell?
i fail to see how that applies to this situation.
if someone want to translate :)
Bon je vais repondre en francais, vu mon anglais plus que moyen je dirais moins de conneries comme ca...si y'a quelqu'un de motiver pour traduire....
Je suis vraiment desolé si j'ai pu paraitre insultant..ce n'etait pas du tout mon intention.
je comprends tout a fait la reaction de gargaj et gloom, je ne pensais pas que c'etait eux qui organisaient tout. vraiment desolé les gars....
je croyais que c'etait nvidia qui gerait tout...
Pour en revennir aux "demobox", me suis mal expliqué...je ne me suis pas inscrit juste parce qu'il y avait un pc en "cadeau". et pas de pc = pas de demo.
NON! ce n'etait pas du tout ce que je voulais dire. Ce qui m'a motivé c'est le fait que ce soit co-organisé par nvidia, que ce soit aux usa, ca me semblait etre un gros evenement.
j'etais vraiment tres tres motivé... mais au fils du temps...quasiment aucune news sur le site, 2 reponces par mail pour les demobox et ensuite plus rien plus de news...
au final ca me donnait l'impression que ca tombait un peu a l'eau...Et vu le nombre d'heures que j'ai deja passé sur mon projet j'etais un peu degouté, et plus motivé du tout.
Et sans motivation...pas de demo....durdur de bosser sur un truc sans motivation.
Le fait de recevoir un kit "demobox", pour moi c'est un peu une obligation de faire une prod de qualité en contrepartie. Je me vois mal sortir une demo naze faites a la va vite.
et ca, ca motive encore plus a faire une prod qui dechire. j'ai pas dit non plus que si y'avait rien a gagner je ferais une prd naze...la la prod faut qu'elle soit terminée dans les temps ;)
rez: c'est pas tres malin ce que tu dis....regarde les prods cocoon dans quelles party on les a sortie ? pas des grosses party avec pleins de sponsors et pleins de matos a gagner...
sortir une "grosse" prod dans une petite party c'est pas cool ca ? :)
Et penser qu'on fait des demos juste pour gagner de l'argent et du matos c'est pas tres fin....quand tu vois le nombre d'heures que peuvent passer guille,nytrik,tenshu,wellbe et tous les autres
sur les prods cocoon je pense pas que ce soit tres rentable...
Apres c'est toujours agreable de gagner du matos, ce serait tres hypocrite de dire le contraire.
Et etre sur le podium a coté de groupes comme fb, asd etc c'est autrement plus gratifiant qu'un bout de pc aussi puissant soit il.
Bon je vais repondre en francais, vu mon anglais plus que moyen je dirais moins de conneries comme ca...si y'a quelqu'un de motiver pour traduire....
Je suis vraiment desolé si j'ai pu paraitre insultant..ce n'etait pas du tout mon intention.
je comprends tout a fait la reaction de gargaj et gloom, je ne pensais pas que c'etait eux qui organisaient tout. vraiment desolé les gars....
je croyais que c'etait nvidia qui gerait tout...
Pour en revennir aux "demobox", me suis mal expliqué...je ne me suis pas inscrit juste parce qu'il y avait un pc en "cadeau". et pas de pc = pas de demo.
NON! ce n'etait pas du tout ce que je voulais dire. Ce qui m'a motivé c'est le fait que ce soit co-organisé par nvidia, que ce soit aux usa, ca me semblait etre un gros evenement.
j'etais vraiment tres tres motivé... mais au fils du temps...quasiment aucune news sur le site, 2 reponces par mail pour les demobox et ensuite plus rien plus de news...
au final ca me donnait l'impression que ca tombait un peu a l'eau...Et vu le nombre d'heures que j'ai deja passé sur mon projet j'etais un peu degouté, et plus motivé du tout.
Et sans motivation...pas de demo....durdur de bosser sur un truc sans motivation.
Le fait de recevoir un kit "demobox", pour moi c'est un peu une obligation de faire une prod de qualité en contrepartie. Je me vois mal sortir une demo naze faites a la va vite.
et ca, ca motive encore plus a faire une prod qui dechire. j'ai pas dit non plus que si y'avait rien a gagner je ferais une prd naze...la la prod faut qu'elle soit terminée dans les temps ;)
rez: c'est pas tres malin ce que tu dis....regarde les prods cocoon dans quelles party on les a sortie ? pas des grosses party avec pleins de sponsors et pleins de matos a gagner...
sortir une "grosse" prod dans une petite party c'est pas cool ca ? :)
Et penser qu'on fait des demos juste pour gagner de l'argent et du matos c'est pas tres fin....quand tu vois le nombre d'heures que peuvent passer guille,nytrik,tenshu,wellbe et tous les autres
sur les prods cocoon je pense pas que ce soit tres rentable...
Apres c'est toujours agreable de gagner du matos, ce serait tres hypocrite de dire le contraire.
Et etre sur le podium a coté de groupes comme fb, asd etc c'est autrement plus gratifiant qu'un bout de pc aussi puissant soit il.
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if someone want to translate :)
Nah, nobody really cares.. sorry!
hm, that was a bit of a dickmove.. so I babelfished it!
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Good I will answer in French, considering my English more than average I would say less conneries like Ca… if y' quelqu' has; one to justify to translate…. I am really sorry if j' could appear insulting. .ce n' was at all my intention. I completely include/understand the reaction of gargaj and gloom, I did not think only c' was them which organized all. really sorry the guy…. I believed that c' was nvidia which managed all… To return from there to the " demobox" ,… I am badly explained to me was not registered parce qu' just; there was a PC in " cadeau". and not of PC = not of demonstration. NOT! this n' was at all what I wanted to say. What m' c' justified; is the fact that it Co-is organized by nvidia, that it is in the USA, Ca seemed me to be a large event. j' stays really very very justified… but with the son of time… almost no news on the site, 2 reponces by email for the demobox and then more nothing more news… with final Ca l' gave me; impression that Ca fell a little has l' water… And considering the d' number; hours that j' already passed on my j' project; stays a little disgusted, and more justified whole. And without motivation… not of demonstration….durdur to work on a trick without motivation. The fact of receiving a kit " demobox" , for me c' to make a prod n the other hand quality is a little an obligation. I badly see myself leaving a demonstration naze made to goes quickly. and Ca, Ca justifies even more has to make a prod which tears. j' did not say either that if y' anything has to gain I had would make a prd naze… the prod is necessary qu' it is finished in times;) rez: c' is not very malignant what you say….the prods cocoon in which parties one looks at left them? not large parties with full sponsors and full with matos have to gain… to leave a " grosse" prod in a small party c' is not cool Ca? :) And to think qu' one makes demonstrations right to gain l' money and of the matos c' is not very fine….when you see the d' number; hours which can spend guille, nytrik, tenshu, wellbe and all others on the prods cocoon I do not think that it is very profitable… After c' is always pleasant to gain matos, it would be very hypocritical to say the opposite. And being on the podium concurrently to groups like Bfr, asd etc c' is differently more gratifiant qu' an end of so powerful PC is it.
and i used google translate, luke, and it's surprisingly intelligible:
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Well, I will answer in French, given my English more than average I would say less than shit like that ... if there's someone to translate motivate ....
I'm really desolé if I have seemed insulting .. this was not my intention at all.
I quite understand the reaction of gargaj and gloom, I did not think it was they who organized everything. desolé guys really ....
I thought it was nvidia who managed everything ...
For the revennir "demobox" I am poorly explained ... I have not included just because there was a pc in "gift". and no pc = no demo.
NO! this was not at all what I wanted to say. What motivated me is the fact that it is co-organized by nvidia, whether the usa, ca me seemed to be a big event.
I was very very motivated ... but the son of the time ... hardly any news on the site, 2 reponces by mail for demobox and then nothing more news ...
the final ca gave me the impression that ca fell a little water ... And given the number of hours that I have already spent on my project I was a little degouté, and more motivated at all.
And without motivation ... no .... durdur demo to work on something without motivation.
They receive a kit "demobox" For me this is just an obligation to make a prod quality in return. I can not see out a demo naze made a will soon.
and ca, ca motive has more to prod which splits. I have not said no more than if nothing has y'avait I would win a prd naze ... the need to prod it is finished in time;)
rez is not very smart what you say .... look prods cocoon in what party they were leaving? not big party with a lot of sponsors and full of matos a win ...
leave a "big" prod in a small party that is not cool ca? :)
And think we're doing demos just to earn money and gear is not very end .... when you see the number of hours that can pass guille, nytrik, tenshu, wellbe and all other
on prods cocoon I do not think it is very profitable ...
After it's always nice to win the matos, it would be very hypocritical to say otherwise.
And be on the podium next to groups like fb, asd is so much more gratifying that after pc however powerful it.
wait, did Babelfish translate 'fb' to 'Bfr' ? as in 'franc belgique' to 'Belgian Franc'... o_O
What..
What..
gloom, gargaj; what would have happened is SoLo2 had requested a demobox? :)
probably this:
- gpu. green board with black and red things on it
- cpu. black square, intel written on it
- ram. small, green and two of them.
- motherboard. nice logo.
overal: thumb up
- gpu. green board with black and red things on it
- cpu. black square, intel written on it
- ram. small, green and two of them.
- motherboard. nice logo.
overal: thumb up
maali : as bonzaj said once: no one forbid you to do an ace prod and become elite
ive done many ace things already, so that cant be the point!
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gloom, gargaj; what would have happened is SoLo2 had requested a demobox? :)
...
probably this:
- gpu. green board with black and red things on it
- cpu. black square, intel written on it
- ram. small, green and two of them.
- motherboard. nice logo.
overal: thumb up
:D
"intel logotype" surely!
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i think it's just fine if they throw their own compos but they should get their fucking shit together and not let otherwise probably already very busy sceners run the show just because it's cheap.
it's the first year and we want to get the thing happen RIGHT, because the scene isn't particularly forgiving if something gets cocked up by people who dont know their shit.
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communication is a tad lacking as i said earlier and nvidia must be in this for something.
not sure if i get what you mean.
NTSC's message translated:
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si quelqu'un veut bien traduire :)
Ok, I'm gonna answer in french, considering my less than average english I will say less dumb things like that.. if somebody's motivated enough to translate.
I'm really sorry if I could appear insulting, that wasn't at all my intent.
I fully understand gargaj and gloom's reaction, I did not know they were organizing everything. Really sorry guys. I thought Nvidia was handling everything.
Coming back to the "demobox", I've expressed myself badly.. I didn't register myself because there was a pc as "gift". And that no pc = no demo.
NO! That wasn't at all what I meant to say. What motivated me was the fact it was co-organized by nvidia, the fact it was held in the USA, that it seemed to be a big event.
I was really really motivated... but after some time .. almost no news on the site, 2 answers by mail about the demoboxes and then no other news
In the end it gave me the impression that it was turning to nothing.. And seeing how many hours I've already spent on my project I was a bit pissed off and no more motivated at all.
And without motivation.. no demo .. hard to work on something without such motivation.
Receiving a "demobox" kit, for me it's a bit like being bound to make a quality production as an answer. I can't see myself releasing a crap demo done quick and dirty.
And that, motivates even more to make a kick ass demo. I'm not saying either that I would do a crap prod if nothing was there to be won.. Here the prod must be completed in time.
Rez: what's you're saying is not so smart .. check out the cocoon prods and in which parties they were released? No big party with tons of sponsors and hardware to win...
To think we're making demos to earn money and win hardware is not so smart... When you witness the number of hours that guille, nytrik, tenshu, willbe and all the other ones have spent on cocoon prods. I don't think it's a business-savy..
Then again it's always nice to win some hardware, saying anything else would be hypocritical.
And to be on the winner's stand along with groups such as fb, asd, etc.. is in other ways more rewarding than a bit of a PC as powerful as it can be.
Vou escrever em Português porque este post é inutil como muitos outros.
Inglês filho da puta, fala-o!
Inglês filho da puta, fala-o!
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gloom: i'm not defending what ntsc said, but a liiitttle bit more communication towards the signees (apart from this topic) wouldnt hurt.
I agree, but there is a right way to vent your frustrations (email the organizers) and there is a wrong way (act like a baby and make "threats"), I think you'll agree. :)
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but you must admit that nvidia is pretty much yanking everyone's tail if that be so, right?
Hell no.
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it's not as if 40 pc's, how beefy they may be, are anywhere near visible on their yearly financial statements and i'm not assuming that you're being rewarded a whole lot for this either. and be sure not to answer that, because that is none of my businsess. nor is it of anyone else outside of the organization.
Well, you raised the issue so I sort of have no choice but to answer it, now do I?
Not that it matters for your analogy, but it's actually closer to 80 PCs in total (remember the 35+ that were handed out at Breakpoint). With regards to being rewarded - no, we don't get paid at all. We do it out of our spare time, like with Scene.org, Solskogen, Slengpung, Assembly and what have you. We get to go to the event, to physically arrange it, so I guess you could call that compensation if you like, though we will actually be working during the event.
I can't speak for Gargaj or Ekki, but for me it's about kickstarting a US demoscene. That would be the coolest thing. Ever. Ever ever. :)
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so in the end we all get frustration to deal with and they'll walk away with a reel of demos to show off on their symposium whilst being relatively cheap by just handing out some goodies and let the scene solve it from there on.
First; "we all get frustration" - well boo hoo. :) 80 "complete" PCs are handed out with no commitment in return. People can probably act like adults and wait, don't you agree? Even so, as Ryg said; signing a webform and waiting politely isn't really too much to ask, is it? Oh, and yeah - the form was up in GOOD TIME before Breakpoint, so that people could get their boxes there (which 35+ people did, I might remind you), and ntsc was one of the (many) people who signed up after breakpoint. Not that it matters, but I thought I'd mention it nevertheless.
Second; I suggest you read [url=http://www.bitfellas.org/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.699]this article[/quote] - NVIDIA is not interested in getting some "cheap showoffs", and they sure as hell aren't trying to "market themselves" to demosceners, the smallest, poorest market there could possibly be. That's what gamers are for. :)
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i think it's just fine if they throw their own compos but they should get their fucking shit together and not let otherwise probably already very busy sceners run the show just because it's cheap.
Err. NVIDIA wanted to do it right, so they contacted "the best of the best", Scene.org and Breakpoint. They're not "abusing" anyone, they want to make it a true scene experience. Can you blame them? :)
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I fully understand gargaj and gloom's reaction, I did not know they were organizing everything. Really sorry guys. I thought Nvidia was handling everything.
That's okay, but it doesn't really justify being a prick. :) Do you think that NVIDIA are more likely to "yield" to bitching? :)
Blah, BB Code is for pros.
Oh, and I forget to add to this point:
I think you need to study some marketing if you think that 40 PCs (or in fact: ~80) is cheap, you're dead wrong. Also; expecting that ANY company shell out that sort of cash (remember, NVIDIA only makes graphics cards - the CPUs, memory and mainboards have to be paid for by them as well) for something that has NO PROMISE OF RETURN is plain stupid, sorry. :) It is a large expense, and a large risk for anyone willing to "invest" in such a risky group as the demoscene ("Rob is jarig" or "Random hitler thread" anyone? :) and that's even not counting the event itself, which is a HUGE financial risk.
That was my rant for the evening, good night :)
Oh, and I forget to add to this point:
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it's not as if 40 pc's, how beefy they may be, are anywhere near visible on their yearly financial statements
I think you need to study some marketing if you think that 40 PCs (or in fact: ~80) is cheap, you're dead wrong. Also; expecting that ANY company shell out that sort of cash (remember, NVIDIA only makes graphics cards - the CPUs, memory and mainboards have to be paid for by them as well) for something that has NO PROMISE OF RETURN is plain stupid, sorry. :) It is a large expense, and a large risk for anyone willing to "invest" in such a risky group as the demoscene ("Rob is jarig" or "Random hitler thread" anyone? :) and that's even not counting the event itself, which is a HUGE financial risk.
That was my rant for the evening, good night :)