pouët.net

my complaints in short:
a) until a few weeks ago, i hadn't even heard about any "victims" of ep; i just thought he was a troll. i'm all for raising awareness (and the scene.org thread did), but i find this whole "lynch mob" thing quite sickening.
b) dragging magic into this; he certainly is annoying, but neither his pouet/irc activities nor his mails to the bp hotline ml have anything to do with hugi or ep in the first place. i think quitting hugi was a good move, but that won't change anything about the issues scamp actually complained about.
c) scamp accuses me and others of being indifferent to the problem, because i didn't "support" the victims (again, until a few weeks ago, i didn't even know there were any). despite this, scamps idea of a "solution" is to get ep away from the demoscene to stalk someone else (presumably someone he doesn't know). as should be pretty obvious from my above post, i disagree.

I didn´t expect the Spanish Inquisition.

Someone acknowledge my picture damnit! I was so pleased when I found that!

I think you should repaste it, it's that good.

parapete: Ok, I've got to admit it's good ;)

guys! no need to fight over ep's body, he isn't worth it.

I just wish to point out that some people's help is worse than no help. Look at the track record of pre XXth century medicine.

more notes:

• nowhere does it say in the OP that ep has been stalking people, and in some cases even went as far as sending death threats. i did not know about this until maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago (i always thought ep was a harmless troll), and judging by the response of a lot of people (including not only archmage, navis, melwyn and me, but also axel, okkie, fred, paniq, AMI, degauss and several others - stopped looking at page 4 :), a lot of people don't know about it now, either. this would have been highly relevant information; some ranting about him being a stupid loser isn't.
  
• nowhere does it say in the OP that adok knew about the stalking and the death threats since it started, but still continued publishing eps articles over a period of several years. i did not know about this until about an hour ago - since i never heard about it, and most people i know similarly hadn't heard about it. this is definitely not information that is in any way "widely known"; in fact, it seems to be pretty unknown among people who didn't waste a lot of time reading pouet flamewars. i didn't get this in the "anonymous letter to scene.org" thread either; i assumed the uproar was about adok refusing to distance himself from ep now. having knowingly tolerated eps behavior for several years is quite a different thing, but again, this isn't visible in the OP, which is spewing vitriol about some "race theory" crap (no idea what exactly that's referring to either, since i don't read hugi) that doesn't have anything to do with the ep thing either.
  

these are the most important two pieces of information to understand the whole debate, and there's not a word about it in the original post (as said, i learned the second thing only about an hour ago, after i wrote my first complaint, and after i discussed the issue with scamp, where he didn't mention it either). this, together with the "let's just move the problem somewhere we don't see it" and dragging magic into it even though he's nothing to do with the EP thing at all, is the main problem i have about this thread.

i still do think that general trolling as well as stupid pouet bbs topics/hugi articles (and similar stuff elsewhere) are best handled by simply ignoring them.

i do not think that the ep situation can be resolved by ignoring him, and never said i did, even though that's what scamp accuses me of. i'm pretty convinced that starting this thread, not mentioning any of the actual problems, but instead just with flaming, has been contraproductive. actual effort should be made to find out his address etc. and bring him to justice, but again, that's not been a real topic in this thread, because it started out with flaming.

i did not think that a failure on adoks side to immediately distance himself from ep warranted taking hugi off scene.org; that's when i just knew about the letter to scene.org and the hogeschool rotterdam, and assumed that the information about eps stalking was as new to adok as it was to me. if adok knew about this since it started, and has tolerated it for years, that is a good reason to take hugi.scene.org down, but again, i didn't know this until about an hour ago, and i'm not alone. again, actually stating the problem would've been way more effective than ranting about adoks friends and his "austrian pride".

Scamp: The only one of your ”villains” here that I have had any interaction with is Magic. He has asked me politely, if enthusiastically, if I have been willing to do different stuff for Hugi, and when I have said no, he has said ok. End of story. Even if the “hassle” in this is increased proportionally to your oh-so-godlike Breakpoint organizing fame, I still don’t think it provides you with any legitimization to open a thread like this against him without receiving deserved criticism. Adok or EP I don’t know anything about except through Hugi, so “trying to help EP’s victims”, as you say, and thereby implying that this is what you are doing, have not even struck me as an option. But you sure are doing a piss-poor job of it here. Even though you are the only one screaming in my ear with capital letters right now - not Magic – I would never post a thread like this against you. As Ryg says, if their have been actual stalking/death threats/forged letters involved, let the appropriate authorities handle the situation. Pouet makes a very poor tribunal, as you hopefully have realized by now.

Another thing that I hope is starting to dawn on you is the fact that this thread makes you come across as an idiot, and that the people you thought would back you up are in fact doing the opposite. Be as it may that the Hugi-staff are not particularly good with people, but you do not strike me as such an ace yourself – neither in our previous interaction, nor here. Posting this thread here instead of “helping the victims” in a proper fashion - if that is what you intend to do - gives you away as a bully. And the right thing to tell a bully is to go pick on somebody their own size.

Oh, and please close down my .untergrund account.

Just for the record, hugi.scene.org is still on. It's the untergrund mirror which has been closed down.

Short in english

calm down the situation isnt it worth....

long in German

Leute.... lasst es langsam mal gut sein, Ihr seid alle keine 20ig mehr und das Herzinfarkt Risiko steigt in "unserem" Alter... also, zieht einfach einen Schlussstrich und das geht auch an Scamp... Wegsehen bringt nichts, das stimmt und die "ist ja nicht mein Problem darum ist es egal" Taktik war schon immer verhängnisvoll ( ich möchte nicht dazu wieder gross den bösen 2 Fingerschnauzbärtigen Onkel A aus Ö zitieren ). Ich für meinen Teil möchte garnicht wissen was genau zwischen Scamp und EP gelaufen war und irgendwann ist etwas auch tot diskutiert.

[Thread closed] ;-)

ryg: Ok, that's criticism I can accept. I somehow took it for granted that people in here would remember at least parts of the EP story as back then it did generate quite some attention in here. Also back when I started the thread, the scene.org one still had been on the top page...

Ok, so yeah, I could have posted a summary of *why* I'm putting EP/Adok/Magic in one sack. Sorry for not doing that. Now you know.

sorry, couldnt resist :>

maali wins :D

archmage: I'll cut it short - if according to your morale standpoint of "team of A and B support their team-member C who attacks victims" should only result in "victim calls police which tells victim that they can't do anything about an anonymous person from another country" plus "A doesn't offer victim info on C so that victim is actually able to get the police do something", then all I offer for you is a plain "Fuck you, seriously".

So: Fuck you, seriously.

maali: wow, thats all it takes to get a visit from aphex twin?!

scamp: nooooooo don't mess with archmage :)

Where's Lord Helmet ? we need to bring back the old fuckings art.

leia: Why not? I think he implied I'm his size ;)

i sent fuckings to lots of people in the open funk sores secret part, but no one bothered even watching the musicdisk let alone finding the secret part :( fuckings scene is dead!! :(

do not give to such a troll like ep the pleasure of a successfully triggered discord :(

"The Infinite Andromeda send fuckings to..."

No, that's not the way! We need peace!

I want even more pussy pix!

hai! gargaj! insert cuteoverload rss feed into this thread, quickly, before someone dies!