What's the story behind the Plastic PS3 demo?
category: offtopic [glöplog]
Don't worry, MGS4 is coming. That, alone, will sell a shitload of ps3.
Yep, that's true... I am personally more interested in seeing Gears Of War 2 ;)
gloom: you've just enlightened my day :)
Hi all,
first of all just to say that I think that Linger in Shadows is very very impressive - top modelling, all the shaders in the world, moody music, it has them all. It certainly looks like it has bucketloads of work behind it and it is going to be a very treasured demoscene demo for the years to come.
However, I have my two questions:
The first question, is rather rhetorical cause I have my own answer to it: we obviously like this demo as a community and most of us are going to thumb it up. This doesn't happen with the tech demos from mad-onion, that are also quite impressive. Is it because they are a (much bigger than plastic) commercial entity or because .plastic is part of our family while madonion isn't. I'm not implying that there is a favouritism towards members of the community but rather a negativity towards the outsiders (madonion). Ofcourse that is natural - after all the .plastic gang is here in flesh and bones while the madonion (or the nvidia/ATI tech guys) are abstract entities in a corporation in a far away land.
Beyond that I must confess that, while the Madonion demos are indeed impressive, they are still lacking something that I found in the plastic demo;
Anyway, the next question is this: maybe it would be better for a PS3 "demoscene" demo to rely less on impressive graphics/shaders/animations (because of the competition from gears of wars and whatnot) and more on something you don't see every day on high end consoles. For example, geometry wars (is that right?) on XBLA was impressive (tractionesque lines and nice glow), probably more impressive to my eyes than, for example, a run of the mill driving game. This way the gamers would be confused:
- " hey what the hell is this..."
but maybe that's how Sony wanted things to be. I'm interested to see what the other groups will do. Oh, and my blood is also boiling when I read the gamer's stupid comments about looking like a CS final year project or something. Where is ye olde clue shop when you need it heh..
first of all just to say that I think that Linger in Shadows is very very impressive - top modelling, all the shaders in the world, moody music, it has them all. It certainly looks like it has bucketloads of work behind it and it is going to be a very treasured demoscene demo for the years to come.
However, I have my two questions:
The first question, is rather rhetorical cause I have my own answer to it: we obviously like this demo as a community and most of us are going to thumb it up. This doesn't happen with the tech demos from mad-onion, that are also quite impressive. Is it because they are a (much bigger than plastic) commercial entity or because .plastic is part of our family while madonion isn't. I'm not implying that there is a favouritism towards members of the community but rather a negativity towards the outsiders (madonion). Ofcourse that is natural - after all the .plastic gang is here in flesh and bones while the madonion (or the nvidia/ATI tech guys) are abstract entities in a corporation in a far away land.
Beyond that I must confess that, while the Madonion demos are indeed impressive, they are still lacking something that I found in the plastic demo;
Anyway, the next question is this: maybe it would be better for a PS3 "demoscene" demo to rely less on impressive graphics/shaders/animations (because of the competition from gears of wars and whatnot) and more on something you don't see every day on high end consoles. For example, geometry wars (is that right?) on XBLA was impressive (tractionesque lines and nice glow), probably more impressive to my eyes than, for example, a run of the mill driving game. This way the gamers would be confused:
- " hey what the hell is this..."
but maybe that's how Sony wanted things to be. I'm interested to see what the other groups will do. Oh, and my blood is also boiling when I read the gamer's stupid comments about looking like a CS final year project or something. Where is ye olde clue shop when you need it heh..
I thought the madonion guys were former sceners, and that's why the early 3dmarks had demo parts? Also, the maturefurk demos were made by them I believe, didn't they get thumbed up a lot?
psonice is right, but navis has also a point there
navis:
My anwser to your second question would be that the balance between impressive contents and clever techniques/code should be made be each group, attending to lots of factor like how many artist and coders the group has. Also it's a matter of style, in this case its Plastiq's way of making demos (focus on high-end shaders, and impressive artistic contents).
What you do in ASD it's a better approach because you use to play in both fields, with two demos in each stye every year, so you keep most people satisfied. But not many groups can afford that rythm of yours, you biatches xD
Anyway I think you're right pointing the fact that a bunch of amateur could never win over professional teams making impressive content, like GOW's but they still have experimenting with new techniques and inventing stuff. So beating GOW's graphics is probably not a wise goal for your productions.
My anwser to your second question would be that the balance between impressive contents and clever techniques/code should be made be each group, attending to lots of factor like how many artist and coders the group has. Also it's a matter of style, in this case its Plastiq's way of making demos (focus on high-end shaders, and impressive artistic contents).
What you do in ASD it's a better approach because you use to play in both fields, with two demos in each stye every year, so you keep most people satisfied. But not many groups can afford that rythm of yours, you biatches xD
Anyway I think you're right pointing the fact that a bunch of amateur could never win over professional teams making impressive content, like GOW's but they still have experimenting with new techniques and inventing stuff. So beating GOW's graphics is probably not a wise goal for your productions.
Anyway I'm pretty sure past the knee jerck reaction of some segment of neogaf, comments by less obsessive-compulsive gamers will be a lot more positive. Witness for example the comments posted there: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/194248.html
This however is really a nice example of how expectations build, and how we adjust to a certain level of realism. Quickly, and in such a way as to make us notice the bits that don't work quite right. Does the "Uncanny valley" exist in general for all that is animated?
Though I'm not the one to share iblis often outwordly views, I am also at odd with the music and direction, which seem at times rather hamfisted, at times competent. The sound design is rather dry and poor, and it took cues from the wrong inspirations: action movies rather than say, the more subtle soundtrack of a shadow of the colossus.
This however is really a nice example of how expectations build, and how we adjust to a certain level of realism. Quickly, and in such a way as to make us notice the bits that don't work quite right. Does the "Uncanny valley" exist in general for all that is animated?
Though I'm not the one to share iblis often outwordly views, I am also at odd with the music and direction, which seem at times rather hamfisted, at times competent. The sound design is rather dry and poor, and it took cues from the wrong inspirations: action movies rather than say, the more subtle soundtrack of a shadow of the colossus.
This being a comment on a pretty precise point of the soundtrack, and I'm pretty sure atmospherical/sound effects would "fill the void." (considering I'm a big fan of their usage)
As for navis question and the split madonion/maturefurk/demoscene..
I'm affraid that it's all a question of whether the demo is being distributedl through the community.. that's about it. And a bit part of it being it being shown live at a party.
I'm affraid that it's all a question of whether the demo is being distributedl through the community.. that's about it. And a bit part of it being it being shown live at a party.
Do you people remember now that this _IS_ a party version? - Also that (as the filename suggests) is a version without sound effects at all?
Maybe this piece is not yet 100% complete, and people working on demos, or on visual/audio presentations in general know that one of the most difficult parts of this is getting that last 10% of a production "right". This often takes a lot more time than one would think.
At least my jaw dropped when I saw the cat and when it blinked :)
Don't let Iblis nag you, he has an opinion on everything, however I've never seen where he has his relation to the demo-scene from, nor have I experienced if all of his ("Mr. opposite") opinions would also be expressed by him outside pouet (and the Internet in general).
Maybe this piece is not yet 100% complete, and people working on demos, or on visual/audio presentations in general know that one of the most difficult parts of this is getting that last 10% of a production "right". This often takes a lot more time than one would think.
At least my jaw dropped when I saw the cat and when it blinked :)
Don't let Iblis nag you, he has an opinion on everything, however I've never seen where he has his relation to the demo-scene from, nor have I experienced if all of his ("Mr. opposite") opinions would also be expressed by him outside pouet (and the Internet in general).
Quote:
It would be neat if companies like Coke, Honda, Motorola, etc. could hire a demoscene group to make a commercial using only the PS3 to air on TV. Then PS3 users can download a version of the commercial to their system and move around it in realtime, pause it, interact with it. Could be just as feasible with the Xbox360. Hell, with the talent these demoscene guys have, they could probably do it with the PS1.
How's that as a marketing idea?
Quote:
however I've never seen where he has his relation to the demo-scene from,
how about places like this pyrux?. And you make it sound like having an oppinion is a bad thing iif it sometimes differ from that of the hivemind.., which i actually disagree entirely with for reasons im sure is beyond your capabilities. You dont need to apologize on my behalf, especially not on an oppinion that im not the least troubled by having, and as you can see....im not really the only one who didnt fall flat on his arse from seing this ps3 demo and spoke it out loud.
Finally ...no, IRL im really unpleasant especially towards those who make appologies on my behalf, this internet avatar IS my nice, soft and tender side make no mistakes there buddy!
I'M JUST CONSUMER, BRING ME THE LATEST AND GOODEST LOOKING GAMES WHAT I WANT. FOR FREE PREFERRED BUT I CAN'T PIRATE WITH MY PS3. I DON'T LIKE THIS WEIRD BULLSHIT, CAN'T PLAY IT? WHAT IT IS, DUNNO. SHIT
Iblis: If you made the music for Bugtro; great - but how the fuck should I know that you use "noah" as an alias when doing music?
Ayway... we got your opinion, now shut up - and next time you have a very important opinion to make, come to Breakpoint and TALK with us, ok? :)
Ayway... we got your opinion, now shut up - and next time you have a very important opinion to make, come to Breakpoint and TALK with us, ok? :)
puryx if im not mistaken we live in the same town, youre free to drop in for a cup of coffe...i even have milk and sugar ;) It was a mistake on Shocks part, in fact i think i just wanted to use my old handle from the amigascene days, but now its just my name instead :D ...and iblis...and yeah, i already promised PS to smoke peace with him, so i guess theres no turning back from becomming all out party going scener again....again.... =/
Also I don't think I'm making any apologies on your behalf. I'm just trying to prevent people from entering a discussion with you, since my experience regarding that is that it will lead nowhere - call it "trolling" if you want.
Iblis: shit... and we didn't convince you to go with "the bus" (tm)... that would have been a blast :D
I'll join your smoking if can can exchange the smoke with some alcohol ;)
I'll join your smoking if can can exchange the smoke with some alcohol ;)
ahhh...youre one of the. "i know whats best for you, but you dont know whats is best for you" folks. thats cool....im guessing you want to go into politics at a later stage in youre life :)
*lure*
*lure*
no probs mate, i just didnt have time this year. i will be terribly back (actually you can take that to the bank hehe)
whoa, this thread became massive in less than 12 hours.
Downloading.....I'll finally see it in a good resolution at lunch time. Thanks for everyone who uploaded and zafos for the mirror.
...and thanks for plastic, of course!
Downloading.....I'll finally see it in a good resolution at lunch time. Thanks for everyone who uploaded and zafos for the mirror.
...and thanks for plastic, of course!
http://games.fok.nl/news.php?newsid=24241
it reached some dutch gameboard.. "RUMOUR: SONY WANTS TO MAKE A GAME OUT OF THIS WEIRD TECH DEMO?" basically :D
it reached some dutch gameboard.. "RUMOUR: SONY WANTS TO MAKE A GAME OUT OF THIS WEIRD TECH DEMO?" basically :D
after all the fuss which was goin´on, i´m quite disappointed when i saw it. typical playstation-like stuff; of course, technically very impressive, but the design is so "playstation 1´ish", it comes straight from the 90´s.
why not make an official label for each major group and sell demos like music albums? demo makers can hardly compete with industrial engines today, this "demo" is kind of an exception... but is this really a problem? should this demo be the cutting edge of demo making after debris, is photorealism the ultimative goal? -- i think, demos are a unique artform and shouldn't compared with movies or games at all. they are much closer to music or painting for me...
demos could be treated as tracks of modern audio visual album, distributed over the net. musicians earn money too...
i'm not a fan of all that sponsored stuff (intel, nvida, coca, etc)
demos could be treated as tracks of modern audio visual album, distributed over the net. musicians earn money too...
i'm not a fan of all that sponsored stuff (intel, nvida, coca, etc)
