Don't Kill Me!
category: general [glöplog]
I have no clue about anything about demoscene, information seems to be eluding me wherever I look. I saw some demos and it has really inspired me to get a group together and start working on our own. Thing is, I have no idea how to get started, what kind of software I'll need etc. So could some one please try to cobble together a list of what I'll need to get me started on my own demos?
Eternal thanx:
~PieIlike
Eternal thanx:
~PieIlike
If you want to make Windows demo and you are a coder, you can start with Visual C++ express edition (it's free):
http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/default.aspx
I suggest you stay on WinXP (or 2000), not Vista. Vista and its drivers are not mature enough at the moment.
Then you will have to chose an API: DirecX or OpenGL.
- OpenGL is easier to get started but painful in the long run ( http://nehe.gamedev.net/ has all you need to make a basic demo in no time)
- DirectX has a steeper learning curve but pays off in the long run. It also have less driver support issues.
You can try to get in touch with people here, or on Bitfellas: http://www.bitfellas.org/
Attenting a party might also help, you can find a list of the next parties here: http://www.demoparty.net/
http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/default.aspx
I suggest you stay on WinXP (or 2000), not Vista. Vista and its drivers are not mature enough at the moment.
Then you will have to chose an API: DirecX or OpenGL.
- OpenGL is easier to get started but painful in the long run ( http://nehe.gamedev.net/ has all you need to make a basic demo in no time)
- DirectX has a steeper learning curve but pays off in the long run. It also have less driver support issues.
You can try to get in touch with people here, or on Bitfellas: http://www.bitfellas.org/
Attenting a party might also help, you can find a list of the next parties here: http://www.demoparty.net/
Are you (or do you want to be) a coder, musician, graphician, all-of-the--above, none-of-the-above, some-of-the-above, other?
First of all, you'll need to decide what function you would do, as in: a coder, graphician, musician. You can, of course, focus on all three of them, but a one-man-army approach will surely sap all your strength and ambition (and lots of free time, too). To date, only a couple of guys in the scene are known and successful one-man-armies, and believe me, these guys have an overflow of skills and talents. Since you want to create demos, this would point to being a coder, and with that, keops has nicely summarized what would be needed. Another possibility is to use an existing demotool, but this approach is really frowned upon around here, unless you do something really groundbreaking with it, and this is not an easy task. You would only find demotools useful if you intend to not ever touch code, that is if you'd like to focus on graphics or music.
Then, you need an idea for a demo. This is really the hardest part right now (depending on your skill of course), since the gloppers have already seen lots of things, and it can be hard to entertain them. I can't throw any ideas at you (need some aces up my sleeve, too ;) ), but I'd suggest just sitting and thinking about styles, art and the like.
Next is the painful process of creating all that stuff you've imagined. Code is the most ungrateful part, since when you'll start seeing some results, it's usually the end of the process - in between you'll be swearing around that it's hard and your efforts have not yet shown anything, but don't let this discourage you. Just keep on rollin', and it'll finally work. Graphics can be fun, but, as I've mentioned earlier, it's hard to shock anyone these days with just a texture or a model, so you'll need to work closer with the code to make some nice effects that'll appease the crowds. Music is, in my humble opinion, the easiest part, because you can create nice things without sculpting around for weeks and the final result is a lot faster to achieve than with code or graphics.
Finally, when you iron out some final bugs, you assemble all three parts and, well, send it here or to a demoparty (much more preferable), where it'll get judged and, hopefully, liked.
As you see, all this requires enormous quantities of effort, so it's not exactly slip 'n slide, but if you're ambitious enough, we'll gladly welcome another demomaker around here :) .
Then, you need an idea for a demo. This is really the hardest part right now (depending on your skill of course), since the gloppers have already seen lots of things, and it can be hard to entertain them. I can't throw any ideas at you (need some aces up my sleeve, too ;) ), but I'd suggest just sitting and thinking about styles, art and the like.
Next is the painful process of creating all that stuff you've imagined. Code is the most ungrateful part, since when you'll start seeing some results, it's usually the end of the process - in between you'll be swearing around that it's hard and your efforts have not yet shown anything, but don't let this discourage you. Just keep on rollin', and it'll finally work. Graphics can be fun, but, as I've mentioned earlier, it's hard to shock anyone these days with just a texture or a model, so you'll need to work closer with the code to make some nice effects that'll appease the crowds. Music is, in my humble opinion, the easiest part, because you can create nice things without sculpting around for weeks and the final result is a lot faster to achieve than with code or graphics.
Finally, when you iron out some final bugs, you assemble all three parts and, well, send it here or to a demoparty (much more preferable), where it'll get judged and, hopefully, liked.
As you see, all this requires enormous quantities of effort, so it's not exactly slip 'n slide, but if you're ambitious enough, we'll gladly welcome another demomaker around here :) .
and you should really pick another avatar icon, that one is somehow cursed by an american that got on the nerves of 75% of the regulars of this joint.
Learn to send random fuckings to anyone. That'll be it. Scene is all about fuckings :')
fuckings to titan!! :)
<3 =)
Speaking from personal experience, the best way to get into demo making is by watching a lot of demos, and then attending a demo party or two. All kinds of communication with sceners, direct or indirect, serves as inspiration as well.
important question: where are you located? US?
Yeah, I'm in US, from what I hear there's like 2 demoparties here.
As for the rest, I got some people together this morning, turns out there were a lot more peopleinterested in demos than I thought. I was planning on filling in any of the gaps in our talents, so that makes me a modeller/coder.
As for the rest, I got some people together this morning, turns out there were a lot more peopleinterested in demos than I thought. I was planning on filling in any of the gaps in our talents, so that makes me a modeller/coder.
that sounds sweet. where in the US are you?
Don't feel bad if your group doesn't have a modeller. Nobody has a modeller. What you need, though, is a swapper!
and fanboys, specially fangirls!
To get an idea about how other people make their demos you could watch some of these seminars.
Congratulations on a fine choice of hobby!
I have some tips:
1) Try to get to a demoparty to meet people. I know Germany is a long way from the US, but Breakpoint (http://breakpoint.untergrund.net) that's held during the Easter in Bingen am Rhein, Germany, is probably the most awesome place in the world to be. It doesn't matter if you don't know anyone, just come and I promise that you'll make a lot of new friends.
2) Since you're starting out as a coder, take your time and don't expect to be Farbrausch instantly. That is, don't give up if the first things you make arent't exactly spectacular. Just keep on doing stuff and you'll end up with cool things in no time. For the first API, I would hesitantly recommend DirectX, which has a lot better developer documentation, support and samples than OpenGL. OGL is easier to pick up though if you have little or no experience in programming.
3) Now that you're on pouet, you're going to be the victim of a strange type of inside humour and trolling (such as the two fine examples already posted on this thread by the esteemed gentlemen "Battle Droid" (aka Dr. Doom/Iris) and Zest). Just ignore it and have fun :)
I have some tips:
1) Try to get to a demoparty to meet people. I know Germany is a long way from the US, but Breakpoint (http://breakpoint.untergrund.net) that's held during the Easter in Bingen am Rhein, Germany, is probably the most awesome place in the world to be. It doesn't matter if you don't know anyone, just come and I promise that you'll make a lot of new friends.
2) Since you're starting out as a coder, take your time and don't expect to be Farbrausch instantly. That is, don't give up if the first things you make arent't exactly spectacular. Just keep on doing stuff and you'll end up with cool things in no time. For the first API, I would hesitantly recommend DirectX, which has a lot better developer documentation, support and samples than OpenGL. OGL is easier to pick up though if you have little or no experience in programming.
3) Now that you're on pouet, you're going to be the victim of a strange type of inside humour and trolling (such as the two fine examples already posted on this thread by the esteemed gentlemen "Battle Droid" (aka Dr. Doom/Iris) and Zest). Just ignore it and have fun :)
Preach: I was about to post 3), seems like you were faster ;)
PieIlike : also, don't try to make clones of demos you see around. You might end up having a result that is not as good as what you tried to copy and it might be kind of bad for your motivation.
Since you are a coder, rather try to experiment stuff and try effects on your own. Read a few tutorials to know the basics in 2D and 3D and then progressively inject your own code and experiments into those tutorials.
That's a good way to learn and it's quite rewarding since you don't have to compare your work to the one advanced coders did. Moreover, you might come up with interesting results.
Keep in mind that a demo doesn't have to be a 3D flyby with the famous recipes every single coder is using over and over.
Since you are a coder, rather try to experiment stuff and try effects on your own. Read a few tutorials to know the basics in 2D and 3D and then progressively inject your own code and experiments into those tutorials.
That's a good way to learn and it's quite rewarding since you don't have to compare your work to the one advanced coders did. Moreover, you might come up with interesting results.
Keep in mind that a demo doesn't have to be a 3D flyby with the famous recipes every single coder is using over and over.
Hm, I think that's too much of a generic advice... Just do whatever you think is cool :)
Gargaj : generic advice... isn't that what the guy was asking for ?
With regards to that one US demoparty (that we know of :) -- it's this one: http://www.demoparty.us/ -- and with regards to american (active) demogroups, there is pretty much only this one: http://www.pouet.net/groups.php?which=2661 -- so if you make your stand, you have a good chance of getting a top 2 placing. :)
keops: by "generic" i meant "specific" :D
And don't forget to NOT come here, it's counterproductive.
wow! a new north american group! OMGOMGOMG!!
welcome in the scene, i hope we'll meet at a future party!
and yeah you should change icon, unless you'Re Legalize in disguise. If you are all i can say is .. WTF!?
As an NA scener you might want to look up for demoparties that allow remote entries, or online only parties (like TMDC). It far from the demoparty experience, but it's good to release prods.
and don't worry if your first prods are labeled as lame. they sure will be but you've got to start from somewhere, and it can only get better ;)
Good luck !
welcome in the scene, i hope we'll meet at a future party!
and yeah you should change icon, unless you'Re Legalize in disguise. If you are all i can say is .. WTF!?
As an NA scener you might want to look up for demoparties that allow remote entries, or online only parties (like TMDC). It far from the demoparty experience, but it's good to release prods.
and don't worry if your first prods are labeled as lame. they sure will be but you've got to start from somewhere, and it can only get better ;)
Good luck !
phew! at first i thought legalize was trying to make amends. :)
welcome aboard (to the u.s. demoscene, not really to pouet :). unfortunately, there's no north american scene site where you can easily locate people and events nearby.. it's still floating in my imagination until i spoon it out.
if you can make it to blockparty next spring, try to.. it'll motivate you to finish a production to show off.
welcome aboard (to the u.s. demoscene, not really to pouet :). unfortunately, there's no north american scene site where you can easily locate people and events nearby.. it's still floating in my imagination until i spoon it out.
if you can make it to blockparty next spring, try to.. it'll motivate you to finish a production to show off.
