pouët.net

[20:14:52] <elmindrda> megadelux: tack för att du sade att jag är dum i

huvudet innan, föresten.
[20:15:03] <megadelux> elmindrda: sa jag?
[20:15:19] <megadelux> elmindrda: varsegod isf.. kan inte minnas det dock >P
[20:15:22] <elmindrda> [16:17] <megadelux> elmindrda: ditt demo sög, men det

var bra för att vara gjort av en tjej
[20:15:33] <megadelux> elmindrda: där sa jag ju inte att du var dum i huvet
[20:15:46] <elmindrda> megadelux: vad sade du då?
[20:15:55] <megadelux> elmindrda: jag sa bara att det vore bra med separerade

compon för demon gjorda för tjejer och för killar, tjejernas demos är ju så

kassa :-)
[20:16:43] <elmindrda> megadelux: och på vilket sätt är det inte att kalla

tjejer dumma?
[20:16:59] <megadelux> är man dum för att man inte kan göra bra demon?
[20:17:23] <elmindrda> megadelux: så demotillverkning sitter i snoppen?
[20:17:26] <buzz-> megadelux: det var bra även fast det var gjort av en tjej,

och hade det varit en kille eller en könslös figur eller vem som helst som

hade gjort det demot och det hade sett ut som det gjorde så hade jag gillat

det endå..
[20:17:33] <megadelux> elmindrda: vet inte, tydligen än så länge?
[20:17:49] <elmindrda> megadelux: vet du överhuvudtaget varför demot ser ut

som det gör?
[20:17:51] <candybag> megadelux, vilka storproduktioner av demos har du varit

med i?
[20:17:55] <candybag> det på deadline va ju fint iaf
[20:18:01] <megadelux> elmindrda: för att ni inte kan göra bättre
[20:18:08] <megadelux> candybag: inga
[20:18:10] <megadelux> candybag: jag suger
[20:18:22] <candybag> sådär
[20:18:23] <megadelux> candybag: men kan du säga en storproduktion gjord av

tjejer?
[20:18:25] <elmindrda> megadelux: nej, för att våran designer bestämde att

det skulle se ut exakt så.
[20:18:25] <candybag> där har vi svaret
[20:18:42] <candybag> slutdiskuterat med lator
[20:18:50] <megadelux> candybag: du vågar ju inte
[20:18:56] <megadelux> alla märker ju att tjejer inte kan göra bra demon
[20:18:59] <megadelux> då hade dom väl gjort det
[20:18:59] <candybag> megadelux, diskutera med dig?
[20:19:24] <megadelux> ja, du vågar ju inte svara på min fråga
[20:19:26] <elmindrda> megadelux: så ditt argument är att våran designer, som

är kille, inte kan designa bra demon.
[20:19:35] <candybag> megadelux, du har inte tänkt på att majoriteten av

scenen är killar
[20:19:41] <candybag> killar är mer intresserade av datorer
[20:19:49] <candybag> om lika många tjejer som killar höll på med sånt
[20:19:54] <candybag> så skulle det ju inte vara nån skillnad
[20:20:01] <megadelux> elmindrda: demot hade noll effekter osv, inga tuffa

saker i sej, killar kan göra sånt, tydligen inte tjejer
[20:20:35] <elmindrda> megadelux: så bara för att man kan göra effekter som

du tycker om så måste man göra det?
[20:20:49] <megadelux> jag säger bara att tjejer inte kan göra det än så

länge
[20:21:00] <megadelux> men om några år kanske det kommer fram tjejer som blir

bra på att göra demon
[20:21:06] <megadelux> än så länge håller dom inte måttet
[20:21:18] <elmindrda> megadelux: vilket mått?
[20:21:26] <candybag> megadelux, det är ungefär som att säga att du är dålig

på att föda barn
[20:21:26] <megadelux> för att betraktas som bra demon
[20:21:32] <megadelux> candybag: det är jag
[20:22:03] <megadelux> candybag: men jag tycker du är lite anti mot tjejer

när dus äger så, du säger ju att tjejer inte kommer att kunna göra demon, pga

biologiska skillnader
[20:22:56] <megadelux> jag tror mera att den kvinnliga scenen inte fått tiden

på sej att bli så bra som den manliga, man ser klart skillnader med dom

kvinnliga demona och demon gjorda på 90talet av män
[20:23:06] <megadelux> dom ligger bara ca 10 år efter.. men det kommer nog

att minska
[20:23:43] <elmindrda> megadelux: enligt dig, ja. massor av folk har sagt att

det var bra, och i vilket fall gör vi det vi vill, inte det som andra tycker

är häftigt.
[20:23:43] <candybag> megadelux, jag tycker du är lite anti mot allt som rör

sig på två ben. Det enda jag skulle sakna om du dog är dom här meningslösa

diskutionerna som är sköna att avreagera sig på
[20:23:43] <Jolle> hmm... det här blev ju riktigt roligt...
[20:24:11] <megadelux> elmindrda: folk säger att det är bra för dom tar ju

till hänsyn att det är en tjej som kodat det
[20:24:11] <Jolle> inget fel på demona som var för 10 år sedan... ;)
[20:24:28] <megadelux> elmindrda: hade chaos gjort ett sånt demo hade folk

skrattat åt det och trott det var ett skämt
[20:25:17] <elmindrda> hade vi velat göra tråkiga bruna 3D-modeller med

massor av polygoner, gula partiklar och ångestfyllda texter om ingenting så

hade vi kunnat det. andra har förstått att våra demos går ut på att bryta mot

normen.
[20:25:17] <elmindrda> megadelux: men jag vill inte att någon tar hänsyn till

något så irrelevant.
[20:25:17] <elmindrda> megadelux: du kanske skulle titta på pouet.
[20:25:17] <elmindrda> megadelux: förstår fortfarande inte vad programmering

har med könsorgan att göra.
[20:25:23] <megadelux> jag tror man borde göra en kvinnlig demoscene så

tjejer oxå kan få vinna lite, så får dom nog lite självförtroende och gör

bättre saker
[20:26:17] <megadelux> elmindrda: hade annika sörenstam velat slå 300 meter

och gå 10 under par en runda hade hon nog gjort det också du... dra den om

rödluvan oxå :-)
[20:27:21] <elmindrda> megadelux: jag tror att du är sexistisk.
[20:27:21] <elmindrda> om jag sagt till någon att "ditt demo sög, men det var

bra för att vara gjort av en neger", hade det varit relevant då?
[20:27:21] <elmindrda> megadelux: vem?
[20:27:21] <elmindrda> golf?
[20:27:54] <megadelux> elmindrda: är jag sexistisk för att jag säger att ditt

demo är bra för att vara gjort av en tjej? tycker du det vore bättre att jag

sa att det sög?
[20:28:22] <megadelux> elmindrda: många tycker att dairo (eller vad han

heter) har gjort bra saker för sin ålder osv, det är inget fel med det anser

ajg
[20:28:46] <elmindrda> megadelux: det har du redan sagt att det gjorde, och

hade du låtit det vara vid det så hade jag inte tänkt mer på det. folk

slipper tycka om våra demos.
[20:29:27] <megadelux> jag tänkte inte på att det var en tjej som kodat det

då
[20:29:35] <megadelux> sen när jag ger en komplimang så blir du sur
[20:29:40] <megadelux> du kanske inte kan ta positiv feedback?
[20:29:49] <megadelux> det är antagligen ett av dom bästa demon en tjej kodat
[20:30:50] <elmindrda> megadelux: du ger en komplimang genom att säga att jag

inte är lika duktig på att koda eftersom jag är en tjej? jaa... duktigt.
[20:31:13] <megadelux> jag ger dej en komplimang som säger att du är bättre

att koda än dom flesta tjejerna, du vrider ju på allt
[20:31:55] <elmindrda> megadelux: igen; vad har mitt kön med min förmåga att

koda att göra?
[20:32:10] <megadelux> jag tycker iaf vi borde arrangera lite mera roliga

compon som tjejerna lätt vinner, tex wettshirtcompos , skulle nog locka lite

flera tjejer till demoscenen

lator, nu är du bara elak.
sluta upp genast!

i dont care to read all that. i bet its not worth it.

Already had some positive feedbacks from OpenTokix at #planetzues.net about this text:

[20:42:44] <OpenTokix> megadelux: du är fan helt jävla stel i huvudet.
[20:44:27] <OpenTokix> megadelux: precis sånna där jävla korkade utspel som gör att tjejer kanske inte är så pigga på scenen i sig.
[20:44:34] <OpenTokix> megadelux: nästa gång du har en åsikt, håll käft om den

Så ska kvinnor tas ;)

whats that demo called that she was involved in? at pouet, i want to take a look

and who fucking cares?

Pasting IRC logs on Pouet is just soooo Optimus.

...and in a language unknown to the majority... oh well...

jag brukar koda demos med mitt kön.

[20:14:52] <elmindrda> megadelux: btw, thanks for saying i was stupid earlier
[20:15:03] <megadelux> elmindrda: did i say that?
[20:15:19] <megadelux> elmindrda: your welcome in that case.. can't remember saying it tho >P
[20:15:22] <elmindrda> [16:17] <megadelux> elmindrda: your demo sucked, but it was good for being made by a girl
[20:15:33] <megadelux> elmindrda: but i didn't say you were stupid there
[20:15:46] <elmindrda> megadelux: what did you say then?
[20:15:55] <megadelux> elmindrda: i just said it would be good with separate compos for demos made by girls and guys, since the girls' demos are so bad :-)
[20:16:43] <elmindrda> megadelux: and in what way isn't that calling girls stupid?
[20:16:59] <megadelux> are you stupid if you can't make good demos?
[20:17:23] <elmindrda> megadelux: so demomaking is in the dick?
[20:17:26] <buzz-> megadelux: it was good even if it was made by a girl, and had it been made by a guy, a person without sex or anyone else and looked the way it does i would still have liked it..
[20:17:33] <megadelux> elmindrda: i don't know, apparently this far?
[20:17:49] <elmindrda> megadelux: do you know anything about why the demo looks the way it does?
[20:17:51] <candybag> megadelux, what megaproductions of demos have you been involved in?
[20:17:55] <candybag> the one at deadline was nice in any case
[20:18:01] <megadelux> elmindrda: cause you can't do any better
[20:18:08] <megadelux> candybag: none
[20:18:10] <megadelux> candybag: i suck
[20:18:22] <candybag> there you go
[20:18:23] <megadelux> candybag: but can you name a megaproduction made by girls?
[20:18:25] <elmindrda> megadelux: no, it's because our designer decided it should look exactly like that.
[20:18:25] <candybag> there we have the answer
[20:18:42] <candybag> enough dicussing with lator
[20:18:50] <megadelux> candybag: you don't dare
[20:18:56] <megadelux> everyone notices girls can't do good demos
[20:18:59] <megadelux> otherwise they would've done it
[20:18:59] <candybag> megadelux, discuss with you?
[20:19:24] <megadelux> yes, you don't dare to answer my question
[20:19:26] <elmindrda> megadelux: so your argument is that our designer, who is a guy, can't design good demos.
[20:19:35] <candybag> megadelux, you haven't thought that the majority of the scene are guys.
[20:19:41] <candybag> guys are more intrested in computers
[20:19:49] <candybag> if just as many girls were into this kind of thing
[20:19:54] <candybag> there wouldn't be any difference
[20:20:01] <megadelux> elmindrda: the demo had zero effects and so on, no cool things, guys can do that, apparently girls can't
[20:20:35] <elmindrda> megadelux: so just because you can do effects that you like you have to?
[20:20:49] <megadelux> i'm only saying that girls can't do that yet
[20:21:00] <megadelux> but in a few years maybe some girls will become good in making demos
[20:21:06] <megadelux> thus far they're not good enough
[20:21:18] <elmindrda> megadelux: good enough for whom?
[20:21:26] <candybag> megadelux, it's a bit like saying that you are bad at giving birth to children
[20:21:26] <megadelux> to be classed as good demos
[20:21:32] <megadelux> candybag: i am
[20:22:03] <megadelux> candybag: but i think you are a bit anti-girl when you say that, you're saying girls won't be able to do demos because of biological differences
[20:22:56] <megadelux> i think the female scene hasn't had the time ti become as good as the male scene, you see differences between the female demos and demos made by men in the 90ties
[20:23:06] <megadelux> they are only 10 years behind.. but they will probably catch up
[20:23:43] <elmindrda> megadelux: in your opinion, yes. alot of people have said it was good, and in any case we're doing what we want to do, not what other people think is cool.
[20:23:43] <candybag> megadelux, i think you are abit anti-everything-that-moves-on-two-legs. The only thing i would miss if you died are these pointless discussions that give vent to your feelings
[20:23:43] <Jolle> hm... this became kinda funny actually...
[20:24:11] <megadelux> elmindrda: people say it's good because they take into account that it's coded by a girl
[20:24:11] <Jolle> nothing wrong with the demos made ten years ago... ;)
[20:24:28] <megadelux> elmindrda: if chaos had done a demo like that people had laughed and thought it was a joke
[20:25:17] <elmindrda> if we wanted to make boring brown 3d-models with lots of polygons, yellow particles and anxiety-ridden texts about nothing we could've. other people have understood that our demos are about breaking the norm.
[20:25:17] <elmindrda> megadelux: but i don't want anyone to take something so irrelevant into account.
[20:25:17] <elmindrda> megadelux: maybe you should have a look at pouet.
[20:25:17] <elmindrda> megadelux: i still don't understand what programming has to do with sexual organs.
[20:25:23] <megadelux> imo i think ther should be a female demoscene so that girls also could win sometimes, so they will become more confident and do better things
[20:26:17] <megadelux> elmindrda: if annika sörenstam had wanted to hit 300 metres och do 10 below par in a round she would've... yeah riiiight :-)
[20:27:21] <elmindrda> megadelux: i think you are sexist.
[20:27:21] <elmindrda> if i said to someone that "your demo sucked, but it was good for being made by a negro", had it been relevant then?
[20:27:21] <elmindrda> megadelux: who?
[20:27:21] <elmindrda> golf?
[20:27:54] <megadelux> elmindrda: am i sexist when i say your demo was good for being made by a girl? would it be better if i just said it sucked?
[20:28:22] <megadelux> elmindrda: many think that dairo (or whatever his name is) has done good things for his age and so on, there is nothing wrong with that imo.
[20:28:46] <elmindrda> megadelux: you already said it did, and if had stopped at that point i wouldn't have thought about it. people don't have to like our demos.
[20:29:27] <megadelux> i didn't thought about that it was coded it then
[20:29:35] <megadelux> later when i gave you a comliment you are pissed off
[20:29:40] <megadelux> maybe you can't take positive feedback?
[20:29:49] <megadelux> it's probably one of the best demos ever to be coded by a girl
[20:30:50] <elmindrda> megadelux: you give a compliment by saying that i'm not as good at coding because i'm a girl? yeeah... well done.
[20:31:13] <megadelux> i give you a comliment saying that you are a better coder than most girls, you're twisting everything around
[20:31:55] <elmindrda> megadelux: once again; what does my sex have to do with my ability to coded?
[20:32:10] <megadelux> i at least think we should arrange some more fun compos that girls win easily, wet t-shirt compos for instance, that would probably attract more girls to the demoscene

<mempheria> hej stefan!
<L> hej!
<L> Leget?
<mempheria> jo tack bra

Detta var nog den mest korkade dialog jag läst på år och dag. Skäms, Lator!!

va heter demot?

Well, whether the girls demo is 10 years behind or not (what is it so we can see :) I think that guy is more than 10 years behind in his thinking.

Elmindreda has a good point and megadelux didn't meaned anything bad about girl sceners imho. There are misunderstandings, but the golden rule for the succesfull scene girl is in this log!

I like that some female sceners think the way Elmindreda does. Comparing a demo under the prism of sex, and especially organizing male/female compos (Hell,. people are no diferrent pieces of hardware!) is like discriminating beetween sexes. Also, I wanted to say that building a website about female sceners and thinking they are some special beeings, is like doing exactly the same thing :)

Some girls might base on that fact, in order to be content with their sucky demos. Others, might not wish to think that way, rather than equally competiting the elite male sceners of their genre,. but even if so, they can't do anything against the justified attention or the favor towards their productions they get, because of the rarity of their sex in a male dominant scene.

However, from the other side of view, there are really some facts out there. Female sceners/coders is a minority. That doesn't mean that they suck as very well stated. However they haven't released something that I could dare to compare to the 99% male dominant scene. No,. actually that's a lie. There are 2-3+ girl sceners that I can think of, doing works that can be compared with the top, especially in gfx and music. I can't easilly think of some coding examples though. But the fact is that the female population is so small that it's so hard to get a good sample to do the comparison. Many female sceners are newcomers anyway, and it might take some time till they improve. They are back, they are few, these are facts. That's what makes us males think so, and there is a kind of "it's coded by a girl, wow!" favor when voting and more of that. And it's not gonna easilly fade because it's much older than the demoscene. The misunderstandings and discriminations starts from our society anyways..

I might have missed the point, it's somewhere lost around anyways..

..I mean around the world, the common opinions and anything. The best way to not be prejudged is to not even think about these matters anyways. Lol :)

As for Elmindreda, she has been coding in game companies too, as she told me. She is now starting with the demoscene, the first productions doesn't have to be good of course (Not even the second ones, according to the philosophy of each scener. Some prefer to spend few time to do little fun productions rather than trying to reach the top, some others are desperatelly crying about their destiny, beeing loosers in the demoscene (like me :). Doing bad productions, doesn't mean that you are incapable of doing something good in the future..)

http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=6758
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=6933
http://cfemales.paraknowya.com/elmindre.htm

If she has participated in more demos, I would like to know which..

shut the fuck up optimus.

..but I should be the one to do the stalking and find out! ;)

P.S. When I have built my female geeks website, I got enough feedback from many scene girls. They did liked the attention I gave to them. Very few found the idea bad. Building a site of "oh, yeah! Look out, we have got girls too!!!" sounded preety stupid. It might be discriminating or feministic or anything. All sounds a contradiction. I still don't know, female geeks who can still think well might be able to give an answer, but anyways it was my passion and only that drove me to make this site..

And optimus is the leading expert on female sceners :)

Actually, I'm interested now in seeing some female made prods. I'm wondering if they have a different kind of style, or if it's similar to other prods. i.e. girls and boys like different types of toys / colours / whatever. I'm hoping not to see some barbie style prod with ponies etc all done in pink of course :) But somehow I'm not expecting hardcore techno, pictures of demons raping naked women, or big evil machines.

Anyway, what i'm saying is i'm hoping it's a nice, alternative, mature style in some of these prods. Which i think would be good for the scene too.

And separate compos for male/female is only necessary for 24 hour coding marathons on stiff keyboards. And maybe drinking competitions?

If you think that I am writting bogus again, you should rethink before prejudging. It is to be expected, because you know me as the scener who does so, but I tried to make a point in here (or actually share some random thoughts). However, I might be unsucessfull (and I don't care about that anyways), because of the big texts and hard sounded english, and a point which likes to fly around. I prefer thorough discussion than oneline statements (And I wasn't meaning only plek) anyways.. ;P

Ugh,. you turned my crappie-talkie on now ;\

plek :D
stern... but fair

Optimus, i don't think many will find your site sexist, just a bit sad :) Probably most scene girls will like that kind of attention (even if they find it a bit wierd/scary/annoying) because it's at least complimentary. As long as you keep your comments reasonably fair anyway.

>"even if they find it a bit wierd/scary/annoying"

A strong fact actually ;)

P.S. Whatever, I intend to give a big kick to my past soon..