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What do you want a new Scene.org to be like?
category: general [glöplog]
Stervende hoeren
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- people directory à la Ojuice, with many search filters
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a forum where various active people in the scene discuss coding, graphics and direction techniques, how they did things, research ideas and so on, for their own and everyone elses benefit. like gamedev.net, beyond3d, gpgpu, cgtalk and so on, but demo-oriented and relatively free of crap. with moderators to remove junk, and where you have to ask nicely to get posting rights (but anyone can read it). maybe a gamedev/flipcode-style image of the day for scene stuff.
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What i liked about the old hornet archive and never has been re-done properly up till now: a commented/rated "dump site" for sourcecode/tutorials/effects.
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to clarify my last post on the hornet-like code dump/collection thing, here is how it looked like back than:
hornet example
maybe one could add some user comment thing to it or screenshots..
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I'd like a Pouet (same system) for graphics and music releases. I suppose musicians have Nectarine, but graphicians have nothing any more. I don't even know where to look for a comprehensive database of scene graphics.
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Scene.org could remain the "page for outsiders." There's a need for a clean site to point to when you describe what the demoscene is. Just what Madenmann and Willbe said.
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I'd like a Pouet (same system) for graphics and music releases. I suppose musicians have Nectarine, but graphicians have nothing any more. I don't even know where to look for a comprehensive database of scene graphics.
Pouët.net could give birth to child-websites using the same system for music and gfx, without polluting the demo-website.
Let me find according names : "hönk.net" (orange background) and "kläxx.net" (green background).
I mean, please keep all this feedback-rating-based-website ideas far from Scene.org.
To me, Scene.org has to keep neutral toward any scene production.
And we need a nice people directory to connect each other.
For example in France, we damn need young reinforcements, and it's quite hard for newcomers to get to know anyone from the local scene easily.
I've got second ryg. The single most important aspect of scene.org is to be a once-and-for-all complete scene archive. If you've got spare time/resources, to me the most important part would be to work on this. Get the whole infrastructure mirrored, not only the FTP part, work on some kind of failover system.
What's more: With most releases coming from demoparties these day, improve on your cooperation with party organizers. Start offering automated rsync downloads from official party FTPs so that the "try to get an upload account and page a scene.org admin to move releases" part is history.
All in all, I'd prefer scene.org to maintain focus instead of trying to replicate what other scene sites already provide anyway.
One thing that I'd could imagine to be useful would be a scener database similar to what ojuice provided. This could be improved by including a trust-level system for stored data based on a minimal social-network implementation. Like this: I've got an account, and some of my profile fields are private. I'm able to add other sceners to a list of trusted contacts, and for the profile fields I'm able to set "display this only to trusted contacts / to trusted contacts of trusted contacts" etc. This way we could finally get a complete contact database of sceners including mail/phone contacts without the risk of this data getting spread too far. Due to scene.org being a registered organization, a privacy policy of theirs probably would be trusted by most sceners.
What's more: With most releases coming from demoparties these day, improve on your cooperation with party organizers. Start offering automated rsync downloads from official party FTPs so that the "try to get an upload account and page a scene.org admin to move releases" part is history.
All in all, I'd prefer scene.org to maintain focus instead of trying to replicate what other scene sites already provide anyway.
One thing that I'd could imagine to be useful would be a scener database similar to what ojuice provided. This could be improved by including a trust-level system for stored data based on a minimal social-network implementation. Like this: I've got an account, and some of my profile fields are private. I'm able to add other sceners to a list of trusted contacts, and for the profile fields I'm able to set "display this only to trusted contacts / to trusted contacts of trusted contacts" etc. This way we could finally get a complete contact database of sceners including mail/phone contacts without the risk of this data getting spread too far. Due to scene.org being a registered organization, a privacy policy of theirs probably would be trusted by most sceners.
- keep it clean
- more syndication
- more sceneid
- change the forums thing
- offer a big scene introduction where to point people
- offer me a scene.org t-shirt ;)
- more syndication
- more sceneid
- change the forums thing
- offer a big scene introduction where to point people
- offer me a scene.org t-shirt ;)
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Pouët.net could give birth to child-websites using the same system for music and gfx
the same rewritten system...
Women to animate discussions, fresh drinks, ADSL, tahiti view, brain control of all stuffs, Britney Spears in perfect health, etc.
following on from scamp..
scene.org's upload system is so last century. :) anonymous ftp access, shoving it in the "right place" and then waiting for a day or more for an admin to manually move it? hmmm. how about:
- add support for http uploads via the website when logged into your own sceneid account - has the benefit of knowing who uploaded what. also have ftp logins as your sceneid account rather than anonymous.
- the admins could set up some accounts (e.g. trusted well known demogroups and party organisers) to be able to authorise the things they upload themselves and move them out of incoming - or upload in the pub area directly.
- better searching and classification of data would also be nice. the search seems to be basically done by filename right now. what if you overhaualled the upload interface to allow some metadata tags, or maybe if it searched the nfo file contents as well as the filename?
it'd be an important first step to fix and upgrade the things the site already does rather than adding a load of new stuff.
scene.org's upload system is so last century. :) anonymous ftp access, shoving it in the "right place" and then waiting for a day or more for an admin to manually move it? hmmm. how about:
- add support for http uploads via the website when logged into your own sceneid account - has the benefit of knowing who uploaded what. also have ftp logins as your sceneid account rather than anonymous.
- the admins could set up some accounts (e.g. trusted well known demogroups and party organisers) to be able to authorise the things they upload themselves and move them out of incoming - or upload in the pub area directly.
- better searching and classification of data would also be nice. the search seems to be basically done by filename right now. what if you overhaualled the upload interface to allow some metadata tags, or maybe if it searched the nfo file contents as well as the filename?
it'd be an important first step to fix and upgrade the things the site already does rather than adding a load of new stuff.
amen brother... The very few times I tried to upload something on scene.org I had to chase those poor scene.org fellas on irc and then wait hours or a day to see it there !
scamp/smash/navis: I wholeheartedly agree - streamlining the upload procedure ought to be the number one priority.
I am also going to clarify something that (apparently) haven't been clear enough from the start of this thread: my views here are my personal opinions, and not a datastream of the collective conciousness of the entire Scene.org staff.
Shocking, I know, but at least I've beaten the point in with a blunt stick now. :)
I am also going to clarify something that (apparently) haven't been clear enough from the start of this thread: my views here are my personal opinions, and not a datastream of the collective conciousness of the entire Scene.org staff.
Shocking, I know, but at least I've beaten the point in with a blunt stick now. :)
gloom: would be so 1337 to have an uploading system which would allow integration with partymeister and pouet ;P you'd upload at the party, fill eventual additional info and the prod would get archived on scene.org and pouet.net; organizers could finally push the rankings to pouet automagically.
count me in for implementation if needed.
count me in for implementation if needed.
\o/
makc: partymeister already has some support to upload contributions to an FTP when a compo is starting, but I'm not sure if this works with scene.org or not.
kusma: I'd rather go with Scamp's idea... Partymeister uploads the productions to the local party FTP and then they get rsync-ed to a directory on scene.org. That way the party visitors can access the releases instantly and the rest is dependent on the speed of the party's interblag conneciton.
Setting this up should be no problem , only real issue is stuff like consistent directory names etc.
Setting this up should be no problem , only real issue is stuff like consistent directory names etc.
kb: What if the party doesn't have an FTP? Isn't that kinda part of the point of scene.org, doing hosting? I'm not saying rsync access isn't necessary, far from it, but alternatives would be nice.
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kb: What if the party doesn't have an FTP?
THEN you've got WAY bigger organizational problems than rsyncing with scene.org anyway, I'd say :)
kb: You know, smaller parties than Breakpoint does exist, and often they don't need much infrastructure anyway. Take Kindergarden as an example. But yeah whatever, I'm not saying direct upload support is strictly required anyway, I just tried to answer makc's question/request :)
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gloom: would be so 1337 to have an uploading system which would allow integration with partymeister and pouet ;P you'd upload at the party, fill eventual additional info and the prod would get archived on scene.org and pouet.net; organizers could finally push the rankings to pouet automagically.
L33t Party Result Broadcasting Protocol - HELL YEAH. Count me in on that discussion too when it happens... I totally want partymeister integration in demozoo. (When I've actually finished coding the more critical stuff, obviously.)
kusma: Possible misunderstanding detected - we are talking about the party network FTP *at* the party that should get rsynced. I guess even the smallest party has that (how else would visitors be able to get the releases?)....
rsync, ftp, whatever method - it still depends on the party and the organizers to get it done, automating (or "integrating") anything of the sort will just make stuff more fallible.
i strongly oppose anything of the sort.
i strongly oppose anything of the sort.
scamp: Oh, in that case I completely agree :)
I'm all for human-controlled processes if they work fine, but in this case they simply don't. Situation today is: At the last day of the party when you've got shitloads of things to do (prizegiving, cleaning up), you'd need to have the time to manually upload stuff to scene.org, page an admin to move stuff etc. The day after that day, organizers go to sleep for quite some time.
It just doesn't work in pratice. That's why it often takes days for all releases to appear at scene.org.
rsync access however can be configured, setup and tested *prior* to the party start when you still have loads of time. And as soon as compos are released onto the party ftp server, they start getting rsynced, which also solves the issue of not having enough bandwidth in the short timeframe between party end and deconstruction of the party network.
Believe me, for many party organizers the whole topic of getting the releases out to the masses in a coordinated and timely manner IS an issue.
It just doesn't work in pratice. That's why it often takes days for all releases to appear at scene.org.
rsync access however can be configured, setup and tested *prior* to the party start when you still have loads of time. And as soon as compos are released onto the party ftp server, they start getting rsynced, which also solves the issue of not having enough bandwidth in the short timeframe between party end and deconstruction of the party network.
Believe me, for many party organizers the whole topic of getting the releases out to the masses in a coordinated and timely manner IS an issue.
(FTR: that was directed at gargaj)
(And no, that's not a pet project of mine or BP orgas, scene.org is always down during Breakpoint, and we've got our own automated FTP mirroring system for Breakpoint anyway ;)
I remember INSISTING at the first breakpoint to obtain the releases on some dumb cd just to be able to ensure we got the release on time the next morning.
Nobody cared for my request.
Assembly manages to deliver the releases very well on scene.org, on time, and gradually as the results are obtained.
If you really think it's the bottleneck is made of scene.org admins then really.. I have no words for you.
Nobody cared for my request.
Assembly manages to deliver the releases very well on scene.org, on time, and gradually as the results are obtained.
If you really think it's the bottleneck is made of scene.org admins then really.. I have no words for you.
