fix me beautifull
category: general [glöplog]
ps why did you change the name of the mac platforms?
irokos: because hitch made a compelling argument into the usefulness of that decision
Well renaming Mac OS X to MacPPC is pretty useless i'd say. Mac OS X aint only for PPC.
they're supposed to be recategorized accordingly einstein.
please, anyone fix the download link of http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=12315 to http://www.rgba.org/prods/museum/glue_jslide.zip... Many thanks!
done
about the mac osx/mac ppc thingy:
I think its good to somehow show that the prod supports ppc, but the other way around is a bit useless. But "Mac PPC" is stupid since it doesn't say its Mac OS X (tho it has an osx icon). PPC have been used many years before osx where introduced.
I think its good to somehow show that the prod supports ppc, but the other way around is a bit useless. But "Mac PPC" is stupid since it doesn't say its Mac OS X (tho it has an osx icon). PPC have been used many years before osx where introduced.
Yeah, the mac selection is now near useless! One of the main things we need to know is if it's MacOS or OS X. It's like windows/DOS on pc! And it's been a few years since the last macs capable of running pre-osx demos were sold.
There's also the intel/ppc thing, which is much less of an issue because it's not that hard to support both in a demo, and intel macs will run ppc code.
So, how about:
MacOS
Mac OS X
and perhaps Mac OS X (Intel only)
(And I put that there for discussion, it'd be good to get some consensus before it's changed again :)
In the meantime, I suggest changing the PC scheme from Windows and Dos to just Windows XP and Windows Vista ;D
There's also the intel/ppc thing, which is much less of an issue because it's not that hard to support both in a demo, and intel macs will run ppc code.
So, how about:
MacOS
Mac OS X
and perhaps Mac OS X (Intel only)
(And I put that there for discussion, it'd be good to get some consensus before it's changed again :)
In the meantime, I suggest changing the PC scheme from Windows and Dos to just Windows XP and Windows Vista ;D
please always use bbcode in this thread when refering to broken things.
It's just lacking a MacIntel category (and another icon), as macos x runs on powerpc aswell but that version won't be able to run macintel programs while the other way round is possible via the rosetta emulation, afaik macosx runs on g3, g4 and g5 too.
For prods using universal binaries (which are just 1 ppc and 1 intel program crammed inside the same exe file) they should be registered as both macppc & macintel prods.
It's still better than cramming everything under the macosx label anyway as it's totally confusing.
It's just lacking a MacIntel category (and another icon), as macos x runs on powerpc aswell but that version won't be able to run macintel programs while the other way round is possible via the rosetta emulation, afaik macosx runs on g3, g4 and g5 too.
For prods using universal binaries (which are just 1 ppc and 1 intel program crammed inside the same exe file) they should be registered as both macppc & macintel prods.
It's still better than cramming everything under the macosx label anyway as it's totally confusing.
What's confusing about it?
I have all 3 categories of macs here.
I have macs that are PPC that will NOT run osX. They run os8, or os9. And some I can't get Linux on due to their oddities with not even being nubus. (Oldworld. Does this make sense to you? It does to me. But it's not enough to make a definitive 'category' for demos. Lack of productions, and the fact that they do run the same versions of the apple OS of the time.)
I have macs that are PPC that will run osX.
I have macs that are Intel that will run osX.
A demo for 'osX' means: IT RUNS ON FUCKING OSX.
A demo for mac os means: IT DOES NOT RUN ON FUCKING OSX. IT RUNS ON OS9 (or 8 or 6 or 7).
This is a deliniation that is akin to DOS vs Windows. They are completely different.
'macPPC' means - I have no fscking idea. It could mean mac ppc linux, which actually has 'mac ppc' in the name. It probably doesn't. It could mean 'runs on osX but ppc' which... also runs on intel. It could mean 'runs on os8' which will mean that your average Windoze user won't be able to figure out why it won't run, and will just leave lame "macs are gay" messages when they mean "I'm too stupid to figure it out."
And I suppose there MIGHT be a few 68k mac only demos, for the non-ppc macs. I don't know, but that should be looked into - and if there ARE any, there should be a category deliniation for that made IF there are a bunch. Otherwise a note in the production would be fine for those few productions; don't code or make categorical work when it's not something likely to get more productions.
Look, this isn't very hard at all.
mac68k IF it's warranted. And I would guess it isn't.
classicmac for os6/7/8/9 only demos.
osX for osX demos.
And if it is Intel only, first of all, it's lame and gets fuckings; secondly, a note in the production or in the .nfo file will handle those situations. PPC runs on both Intel and PPC macs, in most cases by (ZOMG THIS IS HARD) clicking the icon.
I have all 3 categories of macs here.
I have macs that are PPC that will NOT run osX. They run os8, or os9. And some I can't get Linux on due to their oddities with not even being nubus. (Oldworld. Does this make sense to you? It does to me. But it's not enough to make a definitive 'category' for demos. Lack of productions, and the fact that they do run the same versions of the apple OS of the time.)
I have macs that are PPC that will run osX.
I have macs that are Intel that will run osX.
A demo for 'osX' means: IT RUNS ON FUCKING OSX.
A demo for mac os means: IT DOES NOT RUN ON FUCKING OSX. IT RUNS ON OS9 (or 8 or 6 or 7).
This is a deliniation that is akin to DOS vs Windows. They are completely different.
'macPPC' means - I have no fscking idea. It could mean mac ppc linux, which actually has 'mac ppc' in the name. It probably doesn't. It could mean 'runs on osX but ppc' which... also runs on intel. It could mean 'runs on os8' which will mean that your average Windoze user won't be able to figure out why it won't run, and will just leave lame "macs are gay" messages when they mean "I'm too stupid to figure it out."
And I suppose there MIGHT be a few 68k mac only demos, for the non-ppc macs. I don't know, but that should be looked into - and if there ARE any, there should be a category deliniation for that made IF there are a bunch. Otherwise a note in the production would be fine for those few productions; don't code or make categorical work when it's not something likely to get more productions.
Look, this isn't very hard at all.
mac68k IF it's warranted. And I would guess it isn't.
classicmac for os6/7/8/9 only demos.
osX for osX demos.
And if it is Intel only, first of all, it's lame and gets fuckings; secondly, a note in the production or in the .nfo file will handle those situations. PPC runs on both Intel and PPC macs, in most cases by (ZOMG THIS IS HARD) clicking the icon.
Hitch: that's like saying for PC all you need is PC 16 bit and PC 32 bit. Sure, a few demos might run on one and not the other, but compared to the massive OS difference between dos and windows, it's pretty irrelevant. Try running an os9 demo on a recent mac, or an osx demo on os9.
please always use bbcode in this thread when refering to broken things.
So far linux in the demo world = linux PC, and it's a bad example anyway as it's supposed to be cross platform by magic recompilation and other houdini tricks and blahblah.
That was my original post regarding linux and macosx:
"The best way to sort productions would be by their native executable formats & processors and not OSes, if i add a linux production, which platform is it ? mac 68k, amiga 68k, ppc, x86 or one of the many other platforms where linux has been ported ? (considering the huge amount of linux prods which come without source codes it's rather ambiguous)."
[quote]
And I suppose there MIGHT be a few 68k mac only demos, for the non-ppc macs. I don't know, but that should be looked into - and if there ARE any, there should be a category deliniation for that made IF there are a bunch. Otherwise a note in the production would be fine for those few productions;
[.quote]
There's categories in this database which have less entries than the mac68k one.
You don't know that.
Sooner or later they're all going to run on intel mac only, it's unavoidable.
The macppc category isn't particularly well chosen alright and a bit of a mishmash.
Considering the mac intel can also run windows i guess using a macosx / classicos would make sense except that a prod labelled as macosx won't necessary run on powerpc computers and i'm not sure that all mac ppc prods run on mac intel despite the emulation.
As i said before, using "macosx" to reference both macos9 and macosx productions wasn't a good idea in the first place.
My point was only to extract the mac68k and apple 2e category anyway the rest of the universe can rot.
Quote:
'macPPC' means - I have no fscking idea. It could mean mac ppc linux, which actually has 'mac ppc' in the name. It probably doesn't. It could mean 'runs on osX but ppc' which... also runs on intel. It could mean 'runs on os8' which will mean that your average Windoze user won't be able to figure out why it won't run, and will just leave lame "macs are gay" messages when they mean "I'm too stupid to figure it out."
So far linux in the demo world = linux PC, and it's a bad example anyway as it's supposed to be cross platform by magic recompilation and other houdini tricks and blahblah.
That was my original post regarding linux and macosx:
"The best way to sort productions would be by their native executable formats & processors and not OSes, if i add a linux production, which platform is it ? mac 68k, amiga 68k, ppc, x86 or one of the many other platforms where linux has been ported ? (considering the huge amount of linux prods which come without source codes it's rather ambiguous)."
[quote]
And I suppose there MIGHT be a few 68k mac only demos, for the non-ppc macs. I don't know, but that should be looked into - and if there ARE any, there should be a category deliniation for that made IF there are a bunch. Otherwise a note in the production would be fine for those few productions;
[.quote]
There's categories in this database which have less entries than the mac68k one.
Quote:
don't code or make categorical work when it's not something likely to get more productions.
You don't know that.
Quote:
And if it is Intel only, first of all, it's lame and gets fuckings; secondly, a note in the production or in the .nfo file will handle those situations. PPC runs on both Intel and PPC macs, in most cases by (ZOMG THIS IS HARD) clicking the icon.
Sooner or later they're all going to run on intel mac only, it's unavoidable.
The macppc category isn't particularly well chosen alright and a bit of a mishmash.
Considering the mac intel can also run windows i guess using a macosx / classicos would make sense except that a prod labelled as macosx won't necessary run on powerpc computers and i'm not sure that all mac ppc prods run on mac intel despite the emulation.
Quote:
Try running an os9 demo on a recent mac, or an osx demo on os9.
As i said before, using "macosx" to reference both macos9 and macosx productions wasn't a good idea in the first place.
My point was only to extract the mac68k and apple 2e category anyway the rest of the universe can rot.
Quote:
Sooner or later they're all going to run on intel mac only, it's unavoidable.
That's a rather stupid assumption, nobody knows what processors will be in macs in 10 years from now. Mac could be quantum computers for all we know, or it could run on arm, at least as well on arm.
Maybe its time to do some horrible work and add platform choice such as Operating system + Processor demands. We really would need this for Windows as well (Windows + 2x64bit processors for instance) at least in a short while. It might be good to add this before we actually get such productions, since then it will be a bitch to add correct system info in the database, today you could set all mac demos to ppc and all windows demos to 32bit and in rare situations we have this thread. Btw, shouldn't we really have this discussion somewhere else?
Sorry! I forgot you are to busy banning people and add moderation systems. Silly me.
Linux is a whole other problem.. I remember trying to get some demos running in linux on a ppc mac a while back. I gave up fast :) Considering that there's probably more platforms running linux than there are platforms listed on pouet, it might be best left as just 'linux'.
On the mac, the OS is more important than the CPU most of the time, especially as intel macs can run ppc code (perhaps a few demos don't run, but most should) and I think the older PPC systems had emulation for 68k too.
We definitely need to separate osx and classic demos, I guess they should be called "Mac Classic" and "Mac OSX" (just so long as it begins with mac so we can find it :)
I've no idea on the really old stuff, I guess it depends on how many demos there are for the various platforms. If it's only a few, perhaps something like "Mac Pre-classic" would cover the lot?
On the mac, the OS is more important than the CPU most of the time, especially as intel macs can run ppc code (perhaps a few demos don't run, but most should) and I think the older PPC systems had emulation for 68k too.
We definitely need to separate osx and classic demos, I guess they should be called "Mac Classic" and "Mac OSX" (just so long as it begins with mac so we can find it :)
I've no idea on the really old stuff, I guess it depends on how many demos there are for the various platforms. If it's only a few, perhaps something like "Mac Pre-classic" would cover the lot?
Stefan: if you added cpu requirements you'd end up also adding dx version, gpu requirement, ram, and the rest. Actually, that would rule.. being able to put your system requirements in and see all the stuff that actually would run on it :) Probably a bit impractical though.
While I'm on this thread, the page you get after adding a comment or whatever has a serious lack of <br /> in the bit where it shows what you wrote. A job for nl2br perhaps?
please always use bbcode in this thread when refering to broken things.
10 years is a too big step in computer world to make any assumption, i'm talking about 2 or 3 years (maybe less), even if people using macs are changing their machines less often than pc users.
I also think that a combo of categories would be more accurate (but maybe a bit too complicated for our average demo consumers).
Well, the primary purpose of this thread is to talk about issues related to this database and what need to be fixed.
The different processors architectures used on macs have never been compatible between them at all anyway, the 68k isn't compatible with the ppc and the ppc isn't compatible with the x86 so they're completely different machines retaining an apparent homogeneity by the mean of software emulation.
Yes, they did.
That's a Mac classic actually.
Quote:
That's a rather stupid assumption, nobody knows what processors will be in macs in 10 years from now.
10 years is a too big step in computer world to make any assumption, i'm talking about 2 or 3 years (maybe less), even if people using macs are changing their machines less often than pc users.
Quote:
Maybe its time to do some horrible work and add platform choice such as Operating system + Processor demands. We really would need this for Windows as well (Windows + 2x64bit processors for instance) at least in a short while. It might be good to add this before we actually get such productions, since then it will be a bitch to add correct system info in the database, today you could set all mac demos to ppc and all windows demos to 32bit and in rare situations we have this thread.
I also think that a combo of categories would be more accurate (but maybe a bit too complicated for our average demo consumers).
Quote:
Btw, shouldn't we really have this discussion somewhere else?
Well, the primary purpose of this thread is to talk about issues related to this database and what need to be fixed.
Quote:
On the mac, the OS is more important than the CPU most of the time, especially as intel macs can run ppc code (perhaps a few demos don't run, but most should)
The different processors architectures used on macs have never been compatible between them at all anyway, the 68k isn't compatible with the ppc and the ppc isn't compatible with the x86 so they're completely different machines retaining an apparent homogeneity by the mean of software emulation.
Quote:
and I think the older PPC systems had emulation for 68k too.
Yes, they did.
That's a Mac classic actually.
Quote:
Sooner or later they're all going to run on intel mac only, it's unavoidable.
Really.
So, with the passage of time, suddenly one of the ...
Fuck it. This is just stupid. Pouet no longer supports osX, and that's where I'll leave it.
i thought there was this thing called "universal binary"?
please always use bbcode in this thread when refering to broken things.
universal binary = 2 exe (one for the ppc and one for the x86) stapled together inside one single big file.
universal binary = 2 exe (one for the ppc and one for the x86) stapled together inside one single big file.
hitchhikr: Yes. That universal binary *is* osx. Thats why we think it should be "intel only" as a flag, since that is the breaking of the osx "rules", a decent demo should ship botch PPC and if possible Intel compiled binaries. Have you ever used an intel mac? :)
Hitch: technical stuff aside, I can run ppc demos on my intel mac without even noticing that it's emulated. I can't run os9 demos at all, unless somebody has made an emulator which I'd need to install and configure (which makes it as relevant to osx as any other emulator). That's why I say the OS is important, the cpu less so.
Will demos become intel only? Actually I reckon they will. There's already a few. It's "wrong", but it's happening. I've no idea why, what with not being a coder, but I guess that you need to test and debug on both platforms to make it properly compatible. That isn't always possible if you only have intel macs, so it's forgiveable.
Will demos become intel only? Actually I reckon they will. There's already a few. It's "wrong", but it's happening. I've no idea why, what with not being a coder, but I guess that you need to test and debug on both platforms to make it properly compatible. That isn't always possible if you only have intel macs, so it's forgiveable.
