pouët.net

Some of you talk about censorship and your freedom being taken away, but what about the freedom to hold civilised discussions?

A "freedom to troll policy" comes at the expense of other users and takes away their enjoyment. So effectively PS is giving them their liberties back.

You can think of Pouet as a night club. If the doormen let every scumbag and tramp through the door, there will be fights, puking up and general trouble. The club gets a bad reputation and attracts more scum. But if the doormen turn away these dicks and tramps, the club gets a reputation for being high class and attracts more high class clientele.

skrebbel: No, I'm actually perfectly okay with ps banning users. If he banned me and said, "sorry, I just don't want you here", I seriously wouldn't be offended. As long as he's honest about why he's doing it.

I dislike the "Pouet could be so much more if only we got rid of the 'useless' parts" attitude ("useless" being his exact and very questionable choice of words). Kicking me out on a whim because he feels like it, fine, way more his website than mine, so he's entitled, and I'd still give him freibiers at Breakpoint if he looked thirsty. But to try and pretend that the scene is not inherently full of "useless noise", or that it'd be better off cleansed of all the "useless" people, I don't like that. And I don't like the (lack of) reasoning behind it.

Like take Butler's comment there, about the "freedom to hold civilised discussions". As if it's given that trolls and more legit users are mutually exclusive. Where did that come from? If you don't like the random pictures, you can filter them out using Technology!!1, or better yet, just be a bigger man and tolerate them using Emotional Maturity!!1. Try inserting a few lines of rational thought between "I'm annoyed" and "this BBS isn't big enough for the both of us".

Personally I absolutely agree that the people complaining about trolling are louder and more annoying than the actual trolls. By far. But none of it really bothers me. It's just taking up a bit of space on my screen, and it rarely takes a second to identify when a post is serious and when it's not. And I tend to read even the non-serious posts cause they make it all a lot more colourful.

And BTW if I didn't make it clear I'm fine with very strict measures to protect the prods database, banning IPs/IP ranges/countries, filing criminal charges, whatever, it's vandalism and I really can't think of any circumstances that would excuse trying to sabotage a project that so many people have put a lot of effort into. And attention whoring is probably the worst excuse I can think of. So I'm all in favour of ruling the database with an iron fist if that's what it takes.

But remember that the BBS was put up in the first place to host exactly the kind of crap that ps is now getting tired of. And it's immensely popular, which means people like what it IS, not what it could be. I suspect even the worst anti-troll campaigners out there love having something to complain about, and the trolls love being on the receiving end of that.

For you, yes, but for newbies and demoscene propects it's murder. I stopped refering demoscene wannabies to Pouet ages ago, simply because they get scared shitless when they venture onto the BBS.

gloom:


Subjective is good. Otherwise, you just get another breed of trolls who spend their time dancing around the rules and seeing how annoying they can be without technically breaking any of them. Also known as the "child porn is banned, so I'll flood the boards with lolicon manga instead" effect.

gasman: Sure, but then you just strike down them. The whole "spirit of the law, not the language"-thing applies to internet life as well. :)

Still -- the most important thing is to remove their garbage from the front page, AND setting up stuff like "New to pouet? Post here" threads etc. in sub-forums, so that newbies don't have to live in fear.

but hey, maybe steohawk got more of a message and an understanding of other peoples perception about the subject than if he'd just been straight up banned.

hows this new bbs warning?

gloom: i dont see how subcategorization and diffuse strict rules would stop anyone from trolling new users threads and bumping their bullshit into main focus..

Funny thing about that thread is that most people who congrat PS for taking action are actual active sceners (those people who actually produce stuff and make the demoscene what it is) whereas most (most != all) people complaining are inactive people (those people who think Pouet is a circus where they can be retarded buffoons craving for attention).

That somehow proves again PS was right :)

I'm in favour of the bans, with PS as judge, jury and executioner (so long as he keeps the reasons for banning reasonable, of course!). Having a good discussion derailed by trolling makes pouet a worse place. There should perhaps be a warning first for less serious offenders, and perhaps some way of appealing to somebody other than ps to avoid any claims of bias, but nothing much more IMO.

Having some strict rules is all well and good until the trolls start finding the loopholes and you end up with more and more rules, until nobody knows them all and the whole system is near useless and needs a ton of moderators to keep it going. (Not like that reflects law in the real world of course :)

People can still troll in the "new users / introduction" part of the forums, but it makes it easier to ban/kick them for being assholes. My main point was also that new users can post without it ending up on the front page and ripe for attack. If someone wants to troll with the new users they will have to actively keep themselves updated on what goes on in the different threads, which then becomes too much of a bother for idiots with too much spare time (but not enough spare time to actually make them put in an effort).

At least, that is the logic behind my idea. :)

Oh, and the business in norwegian bars and pubs went _way up_ when the smoking ban was introduced here.

Yes, good thing they made smoke-free bars legal.

Keops hit the nail on the head.

doom, (on your response to my response to your response)

well said :)

buttler, that's not fair, it's exactly what i said two pages ago!

:-( :-(

Skrebbel: I must have missed it, I apologise. Well said Skrebbel!! :)

that was all the pro-ban fascists visiting the bars just to gloat and revel in their “achievement” :) kinda like when those serial killers return to a crime scene and unearth their victim’s decomposing body...only to proceed to have sex with it “one last time”

sadists, just like the Pro-Ban Committee here :)

Posting here should already be a bannable offense if've never met a scener in person before ;)

knos: -> if you dont have a picture on slengpung, you're banned? :D

or something like that :)

lol, there you go keops ;-)

sparcus: I'm sure if we look hard enough we can find a picture of Keops on Slengpung.

This thread must be the greatest flamebait ever on pouet.