pouët.net

Me so happy now ;)

The rules are quiet clear. And at the end it's up to the organizers to allow remote entries or not to allow them. I don't see a sense in discussing things like that. If they won't accept: Live with it. Don't cry about rules.
If maybe 10 people don't understand the rules fully it's still about 900 to a thousand people who understood them clearly. So which side is the faulty one?

The rules were not clear, at least in the case of some compos. Please fix them for next year, BP organizers.

And if a loophole exists... don't hate the player, hate the game.

Yes, we will improve the wordings of the compo rules for next year.

I agree to puryx that in most cases you really have to try hard not to understand them, but if they can be made clearer for newcomers that aren't used to this years-old ruleset, I'm all for it. It all boils down to "someone who has worked on the prod needs to submit it". Which is also easily led to by the "compo prizes are paid from entrance fees, so only people who have contributed to the entrance fee fund should be allowed to win prizes" logic.

Then again, once you have understood a text it's pretty much impossible to understand how other people can fail too. Especially if you want them too.

i remember a few ocasions where i joined satori or kosmoplovci for a day and became author of little more than a couple chars in the infofile just for the sake of delivering the prod. so, loopholes will always exist.. and whose organizer is to say i wasnt really in those groups and contributed to that demo or not?

my point is, there are people who really cant make it to the partyplace, not due to mear lazyness. but they still want to contribute to the event. and in these cases a usually acceptable solution is: remote entries are accepted but no prizemoney is delivered. it's been used plenty of times before, and if it's explicit on the rules i dont see why anyone would complain about it..

i can howhever additionally understand how on big parties like breakpoint the orga would want to keep the number of entries down (for the sake of compo boredom), thus the cut off of remote entries beeing a smart option.. specially for music compos where there is already _way too plenty_ of crap entries to go through.

ps, another downside of that solution is that allocating prize(s/money) becomes a(n even bigger) pain in the ass :/

ps: That works for almost every party except the big ones since people tend to release more at such big events. Remember MS 2002 with almost 50 demos. Now think about 30 e-mail submissions ("hey, it's a big party, we should be present there somehow"). It doesn't work.

making people pay the entrance for remote submissions is a step in the right direction

though cruelly delivered with Numerica taking the first step in that direction, i suddenly feel agreeing Knos.

ps: Yes, and this is what is generally tolerated by organizers including us. Point is: "I'm the co-author" really only works for group-productions like intro/demos. The compo where we get flooded with entries are the single-author ones (mostly: music). This is why the system as it is today works quite fine. Also, from the compo prize standpoint, the "I joined the group I'm handing the production in for" system is just fine - the compo prize for a winning entry will always be the same, no matter how people have worked on the entry.

So, this whole thread isn't about loopholes. We didn't have issues with loopholes this year. We had issues with people cheating and clearly violating clear rules.

i read this and i dont understand. are you all lawyers? use a bit of common sense!

rereleasing old music sucks. competing with a new demo is something each organizer will help you, even if you are not present at the party, unless the demo is really shitty.

all regulations can be tricked. but we don't really need regulations, we just need fairness and solid boots to kick the lamers.

heh chaos, good statement! 100% ack.

i agree chaos - rules are meant to be respected, not to be worked around.

phew... plenty of stuff to read up, well i made it to the end(so far) of this thread.
scamp: tanks for the clarification.
chaos: ex-fucking-actly.

Chaos: in a world where unicorns graze by the rainbow and pigs fly, that scenario will definitely work. Oh wait, we're dealing with the real world here :(

Of course chaos is right, but this is pouet. Most people (including me and some other guy) don't act like normal people here, they resemble lator/dxm in nearly 100%:

As soon as the makers of the rules use common sense at pouet, I'll STFU and use a bit of common sense, too. Promissed.

Since there are four SDS members in BP organizing this whole issue could've been solved without any pouet post.

Damn, I can't count anymore. There's a full hand of SDS members in BP organizing.

Shifter: Real world issues mostly have to do with the real world being huge and full of people you don't know or have any contact with. In the scene you want respect from a small group who are very aware of most of what you do, especially if you do well in a compo.

I think it's already been established that even in a small peer group as the demoscene, there's a nice supply of rotten apples who fuck it up for the rest of us. After all, Breakpoint would need no wrist straps or super secret votekeys if social control was enough.

More or less off-topic thing regarding the money prizes. Just a thought. What about giving them to charities related to computing or technology for winners that don't attend the party ? There would be a statement telling that if you're not here, the money prizes will be given to a charity, and the hardware things to the 2nd and 3rd if it does make sense this way.
The money prizes often cover the trip expenses (and a little more) but it can be encouraging to know that if you're not there and you win, this money will be spread in a fair way, not only given to the others compo with your work recognization set in limbo just because you was not able to attend.
The only goal of this is to motivate and push ppl to START & work on projects without to worry wether they will be able to attend the party or not.

Whatever happened to releasing outside of parties?

Doom: Don't go there.

Wrist straps? Gotta try those next year! And tasers! And guns! And police! And ass-f*****g!

Problem with that is that the winners who *are* at the party are made to feel like shits for depriving a charity of that cash :-)
Besides (and more importantly), I have the impression that Breakpoint isn't really financially secure enough to be giving cash away to charity, especially as the organisers have had to beg / grovel / suck up / ask politely (delete as applicable) to sponsors to get that money in the first place.

"As soon as the makers of the rules use common sense at pouet, I'll STFU and use a bit of common sense, too. Promissed."
The rules are made by the compo team, final wording is by me. Please note that scamp is not involved in the process (unless he really disagrees with something and wants to veto it, but that hasn't happened so far :). As for common sense, I think chaos' statement is quite representative for the whole BP compo team.

And now, cease the lollipop-stealing and name-calling immediately, or you won't get any supper!