Breakpoint 2007
category: general [glöplog]
elfh: If you wish to enter your zx spectrum demo into the C64 democompo, then it has to run on the compo C64. If it doesn't, it will be disqualified. Pretty easy.
Platforms that typically don't have enough releases to justify their own compo go into the "real wild" competition where Gameboys, Consoles, PDAs, weird hardware of all kinds compete. The C64, Amiga and PC platforms have very lively scenes and generate enough competition entries to have their own competitions and dedicated platform organizers who themselves are active on those platforms.
For more information about the real wild compo and what you need to provide, check the compo pages:
http://breakpoint.untergrund.net/compos_misc.php
Platforms that typically don't have enough releases to justify their own compo go into the "real wild" competition where Gameboys, Consoles, PDAs, weird hardware of all kinds compete. The C64, Amiga and PC platforms have very lively scenes and generate enough competition entries to have their own competitions and dedicated platform organizers who themselves are active on those platforms.
For more information about the real wild compo and what you need to provide, check the compo pages:
http://breakpoint.untergrund.net/compos_misc.php
elfh: i wanna meet you \o/
scamp: he was talking about the possibility of changing c64 compo to an oldschool machine compo where zx and c64 were allowed. which i pretty much reckon you guys are against, keeping a c64 compo and have people with zx demos participate in the real wild instead.
elfh:
Easiest way is to write an emulator for ZX Spectrum and claim it to be a C64 emulator. Then you go to the organizers and say "I swear !! IT WORKS ON THE REAL THING!!". It always works.
Easiest way is to write an emulator for ZX Spectrum and claim it to be a C64 emulator. Then you go to the organizers and say "I swear !! IT WORKS ON THE REAL THING!!". It always works.
or write a ZX emulator for the C64!
I vote for the 8bit compo next year. So that Amstrad,Sinclair,C64 and whatever....can be in compo together......also Amiga and Atari in one compo.....simply because there are fewer and fewer groups making non-PEZE stuff.......We need to take care of the old platforms, if that means merging the platforms toghether, that be it.......
fhaak....typing errors......who shits a give......see yall at BP07
its FHAAK!, not FUCK.
its FHAAK!, not FUCK.
And now for something completely different:
Financially-wise, Breakpoint is pretty fucked this year. As you may know, ATI won't sponsor anymore, as they got bought by AMD... which basically means 1/3 of Breakpoint's total budget is gone.
I've tried my very best to find replacement sponsors during the last weeks and months, but without any real luck so far.
So, if anyone in here has good personal industry contacts to something that might be relevant to the demoscene (creators and distributors of Audio Software- and Hardware, Graphics software and hardware, Game development companies, etc), please see if there is something you can do for Breakpoint. In case you are able to create such a contact, we have a pretty detailed Sponsor info folder to hand over etc, so contact me in private. We are also interested in smaller Sponsors who might be able to donate hardware prizes etc.
Breakpoint 07 will take place even without additional sponsors, but it will result in a quite drastic increase on the entrance fee side - keep in mind that 2/3 of the party costs in the past have been paid by our sponsors.
(The good news is that lack of money makes creative - you'll see a lot of improvements at Breakpoint this year in areas where we've always lacked - there finally will be lots of creative fun compos for example)
Financially-wise, Breakpoint is pretty fucked this year. As you may know, ATI won't sponsor anymore, as they got bought by AMD... which basically means 1/3 of Breakpoint's total budget is gone.
I've tried my very best to find replacement sponsors during the last weeks and months, but without any real luck so far.
So, if anyone in here has good personal industry contacts to something that might be relevant to the demoscene (creators and distributors of Audio Software- and Hardware, Graphics software and hardware, Game development companies, etc), please see if there is something you can do for Breakpoint. In case you are able to create such a contact, we have a pretty detailed Sponsor info folder to hand over etc, so contact me in private. We are also interested in smaller Sponsors who might be able to donate hardware prizes etc.
Breakpoint 07 will take place even without additional sponsors, but it will result in a quite drastic increase on the entrance fee side - keep in mind that 2/3 of the party costs in the past have been paid by our sponsors.
(The good news is that lack of money makes creative - you'll see a lot of improvements at Breakpoint this year in areas where we've always lacked - there finally will be lots of creative fun compos for example)
(Oh, and please - "how about writing to company xy?" kind of hints won't really help - we already did a huge paper mailing sessions and mailed most companys for who the demoscene might be relevant. This doesn't work out. The only thing that will work is a personal, direct contact with someone inside such a company to make things move. So, if you are able to help, contact me directly at scamp@untergrund.net)
I imagine this is not really a big post on the budget, but how about quitting the cash-prizes? Personally I prefer e.g. the ducks given out a trsac, or any other symbolic prize (that you can show off). And they're cheaper.
hornet: if you recall previous years, they never really had much big cash prizes to begin with.. the sponsors were to pay the conditions of the partyplace itself.. the heating in the first years, the carpet on the next.. tables and chairs rental, that kind of stuff..
Yup, we usually only have 5-10k of cash prizes - which is not much taken the huge number of compos BP has into account.
There really aren't any areas where we could drastically cut costs without losing much from the party experience.
The basic problem Breakpoint always had is that the low entrance fee never has been enough to cover the expenses needed per visitor. A good party budget covers all costs using the entrance fees, and sponsor money is used for prizes only.
ASM is 75 Euros, TG is 83 Euros (yes, I know about 'oldschool' tickets, but that's just cross-subvention). Compare this to the 45 Euros BP took for the last few years, and you know why we've got a problem and they don't.
The basic formula is: Our entrance fee is far too low and was only possible due to Intel and ATI paying most of the bills. By having this low entrance fee for all those years we've completely spoilt our visitors - if we'd now raise the entrance fees to a level where they actually cover the expenses, people would probably be quite unhappy. Giving your heartblood organizing a event where people are unhappy doesn't make sense. And that's why this situation sucks bigtime.
There really aren't any areas where we could drastically cut costs without losing much from the party experience.
The basic problem Breakpoint always had is that the low entrance fee never has been enough to cover the expenses needed per visitor. A good party budget covers all costs using the entrance fees, and sponsor money is used for prizes only.
ASM is 75 Euros, TG is 83 Euros (yes, I know about 'oldschool' tickets, but that's just cross-subvention). Compare this to the 45 Euros BP took for the last few years, and you know why we've got a problem and they don't.
The basic formula is: Our entrance fee is far too low and was only possible due to Intel and ATI paying most of the bills. By having this low entrance fee for all those years we've completely spoilt our visitors - if we'd now raise the entrance fees to a level where they actually cover the expenses, people would probably be quite unhappy. Giving your heartblood organizing a event where people are unhappy doesn't make sense. And that's why this situation sucks bigtime.
Scamp: 45 euros friday to monday in 2006 was far to low
(i didnt complain though :)
lets face it even breakpoint must go with the market
and raise their prices. 60 euros for 4 days is still acceptable
really! Look at multiday popfestivals their ticket prices are also very
high and the food and drinks you can buy there also.
Its just anno domini 2007 you cant escape 'commercialism'
and fuckings to ATI :)
(i didnt complain though :)
lets face it even breakpoint must go with the market
and raise their prices. 60 euros for 4 days is still acceptable
really! Look at multiday popfestivals their ticket prices are also very
high and the food and drinks you can buy there also.
Its just anno domini 2007 you cant escape 'commercialism'
and fuckings to ATI :)
Magic, please only talk as much as you know.
Comparing a demoparty to a pop festival? lol :)
Magic, stfu. <-- translation
i always considered anything over 30e for a demoparty too much, but im portuguese :) regardless of the entrance fee i'll attend breakpoint and i hope someone working for some big hardware of gamedev company starts pulling some strings to bring us all cheaper easter holidays with the family :)
Anyway, I'll try to get some more sponsors. Depending on the success of that, the entrance fee will be raised more or less. There needs to be a raise in entrance fee anyway, due to increased VAT in Germany since 2007.
I've got several ideas what could be done. One idea would be to simply raise the entrance fee to 55 Euros, and make girls pay too. Another idea would be to raise the regular entrance fee to 60 Euros. We'd then create a "social ticket" which poor sceners from low-income countries (east europe for example) can apply for, which would cost 30 Euros. Girls would also get in for 30 Euros.
Keep in mind that those are just ideas, Feedback welcome.
I've got several ideas what could be done. One idea would be to simply raise the entrance fee to 55 Euros, and make girls pay too. Another idea would be to raise the regular entrance fee to 60 Euros. We'd then create a "social ticket" which poor sceners from low-income countries (east europe for example) can apply for, which would cost 30 Euros. Girls would also get in for 30 Euros.
Keep in mind that those are just ideas, Feedback welcome.
Maybe even voluntary higher entry fee might work, everyone loves Breakpoint and I would pay the higher amount, at least. Of course it's pretty hard to plan ahead if there's no idea on how many people would actually do this.
ofcourse girls should get in for free! they are the only one producing real skilled productions for the demoscene!
I work with IBM...well, 'work' is such a strong term. I mostly just hang around. ;) However, IBM doesn't look like the company to support a creative event such as Breakpoint, so I won't even bother to ask.
But I have some other ideas.
How about doing some advertising in the big cities around Bingen and offer local non-sceners a special low price (one-day passes, perhaps)? In order to not have clueless non-sceners just standing there in the middle of the hall, totally not getting what it is all about, you could throw some seminars, where you tell people about the demo scene? This way you perhaps could "lure" or "persuade" people into the demo scene while covering some costs at the same time? I'd for sure be glad to participate in those "seminars", if you need someone to tell people about the demo scene on Amiga (I'm pretty sure I can get Darkhawk and Curt Cool into this aswell)....but...hell, I don't know if this is blue-eyed and naive, but it's more or the the only way I can think of in order to make some money on such short notice.
You could of course also try to get some TV channels to sponsor something, as (in my mind) these kind of sponsors ought to be oriented towards the creativeness that is the scene, but that might be another bad idea from my side. ;)
But I have some other ideas.
How about doing some advertising in the big cities around Bingen and offer local non-sceners a special low price (one-day passes, perhaps)? In order to not have clueless non-sceners just standing there in the middle of the hall, totally not getting what it is all about, you could throw some seminars, where you tell people about the demo scene? This way you perhaps could "lure" or "persuade" people into the demo scene while covering some costs at the same time? I'd for sure be glad to participate in those "seminars", if you need someone to tell people about the demo scene on Amiga (I'm pretty sure I can get Darkhawk and Curt Cool into this aswell)....but...hell, I don't know if this is blue-eyed and naive, but it's more or the the only way I can think of in order to make some money on such short notice.
You could of course also try to get some TV channels to sponsor something, as (in my mind) these kind of sponsors ought to be oriented towards the creativeness that is the scene, but that might be another bad idea from my side. ;)
.... let's drop the Magic-bashing, alright? It's just getting annoying and embarrassing....
Oh, and it's a good idea to cut prizes and start letting girls pay for the entrance. Equality! ;)
Oh, and it's a good idea to cut prizes and start letting girls pay for the entrance. Equality! ;)
Nutman:
Your suggestion has two important errors:
1.) We don't want non-sceners, local or not, at Breakpoint. We don't want Single-day tickets or single-day visitors. Doing this kills the scene spirit, drives thieves to the party and gives sceners a zoo-like feeling. Baaad. Baaaaaaaad, absolute no-go. I'd shoot myself before doing that.
2.) With the entrance fee per person being lower than the cost created by each person, it's quite simple maths that "more visitors" is not exactly a cure to the problem.
Your suggestion has two important errors:
1.) We don't want non-sceners, local or not, at Breakpoint. We don't want Single-day tickets or single-day visitors. Doing this kills the scene spirit, drives thieves to the party and gives sceners a zoo-like feeling. Baaad. Baaaaaaaad, absolute no-go. I'd shoot myself before doing that.
2.) With the entrance fee per person being lower than the cost created by each person, it's quite simple maths that "more visitors" is not exactly a cure to the problem.
Btw, the girls-get-in-for-free topic is a distinct one and two-edged.
That historic rule comes from the times when demopartys did not have the "creativity" and "art" tags, and no-one with a "reallife" wanted to be in touch with us. Girls-get-in-for-free often was required so sceners could bring their uninterested girlfriends with them, who then sat in a corner reading books during the party, instead of killing that scener for "you are leaving me alone at home for 4 days!" reasons. Girls at demopartys used to be the absolute exception back then.
This has completely changed during the last few years. We now got active female sceners, and some of them have already complained that the "girls get in for free"-rules makes them look like second-class sceners. Besides that, a lot of sceners bring female friends these days, and those girls also have a lot of fun at the party due to the high number of possibilities there - getting drunk at a bonfire, dancing to live music acts and meeting people from all over the world also is fun if you aren't a nerd yourself.
At Breakpoint 06 we had about 100 girls present, more than ever before.
Besides the "female sceners don't want to be treated as second-class" thing, this appears to be a quite big budget factor. But then again, making girls pay the same entrance fee would probably mean that a high percentage of them would stay at home. We don't want the numbers of girls present at Breakpoint to fall really - and it also means that "make girls pay the entrance fee in 07" won't give us 100 additional sold tickets.
In other words: The girls-get-in-for-free rule is a pretty unrelated subject to our budget problems. We wanted to address it long before the budget problem appeared.
That historic rule comes from the times when demopartys did not have the "creativity" and "art" tags, and no-one with a "reallife" wanted to be in touch with us. Girls-get-in-for-free often was required so sceners could bring their uninterested girlfriends with them, who then sat in a corner reading books during the party, instead of killing that scener for "you are leaving me alone at home for 4 days!" reasons. Girls at demopartys used to be the absolute exception back then.
This has completely changed during the last few years. We now got active female sceners, and some of them have already complained that the "girls get in for free"-rules makes them look like second-class sceners. Besides that, a lot of sceners bring female friends these days, and those girls also have a lot of fun at the party due to the high number of possibilities there - getting drunk at a bonfire, dancing to live music acts and meeting people from all over the world also is fun if you aren't a nerd yourself.
At Breakpoint 06 we had about 100 girls present, more than ever before.
Besides the "female sceners don't want to be treated as second-class" thing, this appears to be a quite big budget factor. But then again, making girls pay the same entrance fee would probably mean that a high percentage of them would stay at home. We don't want the numbers of girls present at Breakpoint to fall really - and it also means that "make girls pay the entrance fee in 07" won't give us 100 additional sold tickets.
In other words: The girls-get-in-for-free rule is a pretty unrelated subject to our budget problems. We wanted to address it long before the budget problem appeared.
Quote:
1.) We don't want non-sceners, local or not, at Breakpoint. We don't want Single-day tickets or single-day visitors. Doing this kills the scene spirit, drives thieves to the party and gives sceners a zoo-like feeling. Baaad. Baaaaaaaad, absolute no-go. I'd shoot myself before doing that.
agreed. one thing are people honestly interested in the demoscene and such - but they are willing to pay if they're really interested, or talk to the infodesk so long till they are allowed to peep in, if they are total poor artstudents but desperately want to see whats going on, etc...... BUT another thing are parents with their children looking ar demosceners like animals in the zoo - like it was at dialogos 2000, i think. and such an advertizement measure would attract exactly that kind of spectators.
