pouët.net

I've allways though of amiga as some form of mind illness anyway. prove me wrong.

havoc: Btw, didn't want to contact me (at TUM or so)?

Doom: Relax, everybody loves the Amiga compos at Breakpoint :)

havoc: Absolutely. But if there's any chance of making it last a day or two longer by pointing out what seems to be a bad trend, then why not. After all we could have all quit the Amiga scene when it died in, eh, let's say '98, but that would've been a terrible waste of some good years.

I don't actually have a problem with people wanting to keep up with technology and all that, but I'm just not interested in technology. Which is why I like (some aspects of) the scene. Cause it's not about the technology itself but rather what you do with it.

Even if I could agree with API coding and all that, you barely get a chance to get to know one technology before it's outdated and you have to wrestle with its replacement. And in three years or so you'll be watching a demo from 2007 and not even remember the hardware it was originally coded for. Maybe it did something amazing like output twice as many polys as the gfxcard could supposedly handle, but three months after the demo was released, ATI released the next version of the card which output four times as many. And then a plane hits you in the face and you die and it's all been for nothing. Oh the pointlessness of it all.

Well, if you compete with your MOD in the streaming music anyway you can do some audio editing afterwards right? If you have a good, well mixed sounding song it will be not so difficult to do some mixing and compression afterwards to make it sound a bit better. You can have the best plugins ever, but if your song sucks, it will suck forever.

When you listen to the winning trackercompo entries released the last few years : They all use well recorded and mastered samples anyway, so actually the difference is smaller than you think.

And as a musician : See it as a challenge and a possibility to make your music sound better. Isn't that what musicians want?

Sure, even I would consider choosing amiga given this choice knowing that the pc demo compo would most likely as usual be with approximately 437 mostly unwatchable entries. (*cough* Watchability not being helped by the obvious lets-play-the-entries-in-the-order-we-expect-them-to-be-ranked policy *cough*)

Now imagine applying some much needed preselection cutting the pc demo compo down to about the same number of entries as the amiga demo compo, say 7-10 entries. Assume the preselection jury actually picks the overall best productions, and give people the choice of amiga vs. pc demo compo again and tell me, if you still believe that "a lot, if not most" people would choose amiga over pc, cause I would take that bet. :)

@havoc
I actually think most Amiga sceners would welcome Falcon demos in a combined "68060 + Planar PAL" competition. I sure as hell would.

@thread
Just cancel ALL music compos and replace them with a Hively Tracker compo. Problem solved.

you nailed it there. there is no point to the demoscene, it's an ongoing exercise in futility, that's the whole point :-)

as for the optimizing for api's issue- it's true for demos i guess, but size limited prods still float my boat from a technology pov.

@xeron, the 060 platforms are so comparable it would be silly not to combine, if such an opportunity would arise. but i don't see why not to extend this principle along the entire range- for example, if we (lineout) ever finish our next demo, it'll be for plain falcon (030@16mhz). i'd be happier to compete with that demo against a bunch of decent 060 prods than against jokeprods in the wildcompo.

An oldskool-format tracker-compo sounds like a great solution. Strictly limited filesize and "old" formats.

@havoc, there was a thread about that amiga+atari compo for this-years-bp during summer and many people was saying ok to the idea... can't really but wonder why it's not being done...

Yeah, we're all equal, only some of us are more equal than others?

numtek: It's logic like that that seperates Amigans from the rest of the scene. It seems that everybody can live in peace with each other but the Amigans have to step up every once in a while to tell us how fucking great their machine is and how badly the rest sucks.

We let them, it makes them feel 'special'.

As Rodney put it in Skate or Die..: Quit yer yakkin' and go compete! :)

and i was supposed to post that to the 64mb thread..

Hivelytracker is not about music? Or do you suggest a Hivelytracker skinning contest? :P

Anyway, excellent way to promote your own product. I do the same all the time with IRIS releases. Doesn't always produce the best results, but in general makes me feel good. ;)

sounds good to me... i would even consider a lower mem limit to really separate it from the streaming compo. like 256 kb or 128 kb.



even as an old "amiga nazi" i think that a combined amiga + atari compo would be awesome. :)

okkie: What seperates the Amiga scene is rather that people like to think we're all full of ourselves. Like interpreting "fundamentally different" as "profoundly more interesting, objectively and universally". And like how a rant about how outdated and inferior the Amiga hardware is can become about telling you "how fucking great our machine is". This whole attitude we supposedly have is mostly in your minds. But I'll support it if it's a popular delusion. Cause I COULD tell you all about how great I am for not being fond of hardware that changes every month, even though that's not exactly what I'm saying, is it.

And yeah, I guess Atari is close enough to the Amiga to belong in the same compo. Bring it on, bitches. Amiga > Atari any day!

@Nutman
Yeah! I hadn't though of that, thats a great idea. Cancel all music compos and replace them with a "Hively Tracker music compo", and THEN cancel all gfx compos and replace them with a "Hively Tracker Skin compo".

And make it a rule that all demos and intros must use a HVL format song.

GO DOOM! GO DOOM! HA HA. You are my new hero :D This discussion is just like a boxing match....FHAAAKING GREAT! :D

I Bet the BP crew would allow Atari in the Amiga compo,and it think it would be really great. But then an Atari scener has to step up as a representative and team up with CHARLIE the Amiga compo orginizer. I think it could be awsome. More contributions,more fun.

Btw. Dr.Doom, there are some PC groups making software demos. At KG2006 there were 2. One of them was actually "put down" of being TOO AMIGA'ISH...hehe...Well we in TUFS take that as a compliment :D

http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=27072

Doom: If it's only in my mind, why do I hear more people say the same then? But do your thing man! It's all good!



Awww.. that's so cute!

I enjoyed the amiga compos a lot last year! looking forward to this years' compos :)

TFT:

Go see my comments. ;)

okkie: Not in your mind, in your MINDS. Sure there are people who agree with you. A lot of people are very busy making us out to be isolationists and backwards oldschoolers stuck in the past. But if you're comfortable with your own platform, why try to change ours? Trying to make the Amiga scene "keep up" and stay "modern" and "vibrant" is pointless because it's defined by the platform, and the platform isn't going anywhere.

I never suggested I know what's best for the PC scene. I expressed my own opinion about the 64 MB limit, but I would leave the decision up to the likes of, say, Smash, for whom it's actually relevant. I have loads of respect for PC coders for working with complicated state-of-the-art graphics techniques, PC graphicians for creating highly detailed models using difficult tools like Zbrush and MAX, even PC musicians for creating studio quality music with hard-earned experience with advanced music apps.

But unlike those people who'd call me a zealot for saying so, I fail to see how API coding on 2007 hardware and software rendering on 1994 hardware have anything in common. They're two different arts. Like painting vs. photography. You can keep pointing out that photos are superior to paintings in technical aspects, and that you can be as creative and artistic as you want with a camera, but that doesn't mean photography is simply an improvement on painting.

Anyway, there's too much to say about that, and I'm busy.

And work is hell.

Nutman: OMG!!! I read your comments, and no.4 is clearly the worst. I am so ashamed. First I puke all over your beautiful orange Lada back in 96, then 10 years later I dont even greet my good ol' group....I am out of words. Im gonna stand in the corner of shame and think of what Ive done......gotta make it up to you guys somehow... Darkhawk will never let me touch his goatbeard again....Im so unhappy....