pouët.net

dipswitch, you talk so highly about your ascii-scene one could easily think we others actually give a flying shit. newsflash for you - we really don't (well, most of us anyway)

i respect the artists in artgroups as individuals, i know a couple myself, and in my opinion they are real artists. (hello dalezy!)
i however dislike their/your artgroup-yadayada-bullshit, like it's some kind of religion we all should learn and appreciate.

i suggest you keep your ascii-characters where it belong, in warezscene nfo files, and let us demosceners worry about creating art.

elend, no offence but people in the demoscene stopped caring about ascii-art when you ascii-artists decided you belong to the artgroup/warezscene.

so please stick your ascii where the sun don't shine.

ascii collections need a demofile.

totally fucking agree with stellan...
thanks god

erh, well for me ascii is ascii and belongs there, where ppl like cool art, no matter which Tools Used to create that art.. ~__+

elend, i dont dislike ascii as an artform, i've seen some really nice works, but i really resent the mentality most ascii-artists display nowdays.

they bitch about the way things used to be, when the 'scene' was one big happy family, crackers actually coded their own cracktros and ascii decorated every bbs and production out there.

well, guess what, things change.

what the demoscene really need is creative direction. so we can get past all these old trends that seem to haunt us. adding ascii-art to the pot would probably only take us backwards.

it would be like asking farbrausch to dump kb's softsynth and have him do chiptunes instead.

short answer: the demoscene manages well without your stinking ascii :)

... it's a nice gesture though, offering do to logos.

oh, and happy new years everyone!

I see alot of holier-than-thou attitudes here that aren't really necessary.

The fact of the matter is that there are just as many anti-warez scene ASCII groups (such as Mimic) as there are pro-warez scene.

Personally, I do miss the one-big-happy-family days of old. I have as much respect for the quality cracktro coder as I do for the quality intro coder, and the same would apply to any artist in any artform.

-r

__________
____/ /
.-------- - / // - ---[ e X C E S s ! ]----------------------.
| /___________/ //__________ _____________ ______ __________ |
| / _______/ //_ _ _ ______/ ___/_ ____/_ |
_ _/ __/_ / // /_____/ __/_ ______ _ ___ _ __
| \ / _/ // / _ / _ / / / // |
| \ / / // / / / / / / / // |
|___\ ________/ // ________/ ________/ ________/ ________//____|
. / / // / / / / .
'------- - / // /______ - --------------------sCr/sAc!-------------'
/____ //
//
/

well... that worked out fine, now didn't it. *cough*

anyways; happy new year, you people. :)

okay, stellan.



dalezy ? i respekt ronny very much as musician and one of the nicest persons in german scene, but i never have seen a piece of textmode art by him, so what the heck you are talking about ?



well, you're just speaking for yourself and a small bunch of other people... i am not trying to force anyone to use my artform, but what i see, is huge response from every scenes, the demoscene included. i mean, if pc demosceners in general do not care about ascii art, then why unlock is happy to publish my ascii-related articles in pain ? why he agreed eagerly to pack my upcoming demoscene.dedicated colly as bonusfile into next pain issue ? why kolor is using ascii art for packaging their releases for years ? why haujobb is using ascii art for years, even as effects in some of their demos ? and, last not least, why does your OWN GROUP, bypass, requested logos from me lately and is using them in infofiles, for examle in the drone musicdisk package ?
i could go on forever...
i do respect your opinion for sure, noone forces you to like ascii art or even to use it. but you must not forget that you speak just for yourself ! i know more demosceners who appreciate ascii art than those who don't.



perhaps elend would like to reply to this himself, but for myself, i can only say: when the fuck i had to do this choice ? when i started with ascii art, i wasn't like belonging to one scene or qnother. my goal is to serve every scene which wants to have some textmode art, not more not less. i don't care to much about a so-called "artpack-scene", because the purpose of scenish textmode art is to serve the rest of the scene, so, if the textmode art scene desides to split from actual scene happenings, it wil lbe dead sooner or later. so pelase, don't put me in some categories i don't identyfy myself with.



that's just polemics. now give me a single reason why it would damage the creativity of the demoscene, if a group decorates their textfile info with a piece of ascii art. yes, not everything goes fine with the demoscene, but you're BLAMING THE WRONG SCAPEGOAT! ascii art is the lesser of all things that could do harm to the demoscene. i see absolutely no logical sense in your accusement.

okay, that's it. no disrespect towards you, but you need to face that you are no "spokesman of the pc cdemoscene" or whatsoever. face it, that there are people who don't like ascii art and those who DO, and there's more than enough of the second sort in the pc demoscene. so just let me do my thing, as i am not FORCING you to view/request/use our art. happy new year !

Heh. I don't really get it. I never ever put myself into a scene category. Neither did I say that. But well..

I think Ascii belongs everywhere, where ppl like to have cool Ascii Images in their textfiles. That's all..

All those people above, who feel ASCII is nowdays old fashioned and a step backwards or even pointless. Why not go and join #c-64 and ask each person why they continue to support a machine not updated since the 80`s. What happened to keeping our scene traditions going? Maybe it`s a case of most sceners nowdays simpley don`t know what the old scene feeling is like. ASCII is an artform and more to the point its a part of our scene heritage. Have fun!

stellan, same as dipswitch, what were you refering to when you wrote that? =)

i think i'm known as admirer of ascii art, yet i've never done any good looking asciis myself.

Tsss... ASCII sucks! Really! Promise! A waste of time. Totally! I've spent far too many hours doing logos, so screw the /'s and the 's and the |'s and the _'s and the :'s and the .'s and the rest of #$20 - #$7F.

Yours, t0! / P^A.

yo tommy, dont forget to draw my requests =)

Even if your nfo file only contains the name of the product and the group, you should still include it. Why? Because it can be extracted as metadata automatically by a program for use in search engines. Often times the zip filename is in 8.3 format, but the full name of the demo is something like "deepness under a blue sky" or whatever, which can't fit into 8.3, so the zip file gets called "deepsky.zip" and this doesn't match on a demo name search.

So even if you don't include ascii art in your nfo file, please do include an nfo file.

Having said that, I do agree that a nice ascii art in an nfo file is a bonus and you should do it if you can.

A good logo for the file_id.diz and a decent .nfo
is quite important, that is at least my opinion. But maybe I´m too old for this kindergarten here and should piss off? who knows..

Maybe I've got a bit twisted sense of what's fun, but for me ascii art has always been about having a nice time more than anything else. As far as I can remember, there have been argues of what's right and what's wrong, who belongs to where etc. And what I can tell you is, that those argues have never changed anything and it is not likely that so will happen here either. So I just continue to do what I like to and whoever feels the same way, nice. Should be enough for anyone.

- aBHO / tWiStED ^ flo

dip, i wasn't only thinking about ronny, i included his name because i know he used to/still do(?) music for sac. and we've know each other through irc for quite some time.

the thing is, i like ascii aswell, being an old amiga-abuser i've seen a shitload of cool headers in my short life-span.

what i react against are the comments (even if they might not be that serious) that the demoscene _need_ ascii ... like we're worth shit without it or something.
sure, i agree that it would be nice if we had a tighter grip around retro artforms like ascii/ansi, i only see chiptunes getting by well these days (a bit too well maybe) :)

to keep this short, what i mean is we need to get past old cliches like this 'nfo needs header and borders, diz needs small header'-thing which seem to be a defacto-standard in the warezscene.

i know bm already did this before, and i've seen moppi doing it aswell, but adding ascii to our current demos, mixing it with 3d etc, would be a step in the _right_ direction imo.

ps1. and i've never concidered myself a spokesman for anyone but myself, i just type shit as it comes to mind, hoping im not making a 'complete' ass of myself :p (comments welcome, flame me flame me!)

ps2. hope you guys got really wasted this new years eve, i know i was :p

Traditions exist to enrich the culture, not to start stupid wars like "new stuff rules and old stuff sucks" or "my artform is better than yours".

well, that's a thing i personally never said. i think the threadname by elend is a little bit irritating. my aim is just an _offer_ to pc demoscene guys, as i see that there _is_ a need of ascii art, not because it's tradition or k3wl or smth, but just because i see some demogroups trying hard to do ascii art in their infofiles by themselves and 90% of it looks like shit. =)
those who don't want it, can still be cool without it... :P

well, at least the stuff with the file_id.diz having a certain max. width (44 chars) is not just a "cliché" but it has certain purpose. believe it or not, there is still over a dozen telnet bbs's where, amongst other stuff, demoscene releases get traded. and being a co-sysop of one of the biggest telnet bbs's today, i know it's a pain in the ass to see releases with broad file_id's, because they screw up the file-lister. so, at least for the sake of those 50-100 people who still call bbs's, it would be a nice move of the demogroups to take care of that file_id standart.
when it comes to headers in infofiles, sure, it's no must, but it looks cool... =)

i guess you mean "would NOT"...=) sure it wouldn't if everyone did this. it's a nice gimmick from time to time, i remember how my hearbeat went twice as fast as i was watching the haujobb dhtml demo at mekka bigscreen and suddelny the good old haujobb logo by trivial/lp! bounced on the screen. but if combined ascii-3d effects would become standart, it would soon get dull and boring. and this use of ascii was certainly NOT what i was speaking about, i just try to get the groups using ascii art in nfofiles and file_id's, nothing more...

no reason to flame you, mate...=) unlike 90% of all pouet loudmouths, you are still able to carry on a REAL discussion. big up !

okay, now, if someone is already thinking "this guy is only talking, but he does nothing"... here it goes, my new ascii collection in cooperation with potzkoten/bm. get it at http://files.blackmaiden.de/bm-klock.txt ! 0-sec wares =)

Ohh. Yeah well the Thread Topic by me is a lil bit weird. I surely didn't want to say that Demoscene isn't worth anything without our Ascii art. I just wanted to tell you that I personally would prefer more Ascii Art in Demo .nfo's. :D heh

Who remebers "World of ASCII" .. was it by Impact DK? cant remeber now.. maybe someone should do an update PC version of this? :)

Yes Impact DK did that. It was sort of cool. :P I doubt PC could handle a Demo in Ascii. heh.
There also was a very cool Shoot'em Up entirely in Ascii. I forgot where it was, tho. ;/