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Versus #10 by Nukleus [web] & void
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added on the 2024-12-07 16:49:17 by browallia  |
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comments
Huge!
Good content. Nice!
Congratulations on this release to everybody involved!
Thanks to Menthos. He knows why!
Cool Xmas gift! Respect for the entire Versus team.
Excellent reading and very happy to see it finally surface. Nicely done!
Great stuff! I've read about 30% today. Looking forward to sipping coffee and reading through the whole thing.
Lots of interesting stuff to read (especially the gfx-ai survey) and I am in love with that chiptune. Very nice!
Nice and congrats / greetings to everyone involved.
Nice to see Amiga diskmags still rocks in 2024 with lots of nice readings. The A500 diskmag engine rules.
Nice read, thanks!
lovely stuff
Nice one!
Until now I only read a handful of articles but this is a really convincing package! Congrats!
Wow, that was a lot of content.
I thoroughly enjoyed it!
Excellent format.
I thoroughly enjoyed it!
Excellent format.
sweet
Pls skip those demoscene ami diskmags!
Lots to read! Keep up the good work!
Very nice!
Finally some good news :) Nice work, always great to see new charts. Amiga rulez!
An Amiga diskmag in 2024. Wonderful.
Reading...
Reading...
Rulez!
Thanks for a good read! Keep it up!
:D
I forgot to mention: if eventually there another issue coming out someday, you may want to rename your charts categories from "best" to "most popular".
Thanks Jazzcat.
Thanks!
Honestly, I do NOT want to vote for the most popular production - even if the charts since ages look like as as if everybody would vote for the most POPULAR demo or intro. We have grown older, the gap is getting bigger, so it's not so easy to remember such details.
Remembering the name of the demos is easier if they have been wellknown by many many people. But that's just my attempt at an analysis.
Remembering the name of the demos is easier if they have been wellknown by many many people. But that's just my attempt at an analysis.
Great stuff, but it has a small beauty flaw...
Critikill "article" a next level (maybe AI based) bullshit!:D
"But for us, it's not just about the ideas and pixel art itself."
"In a world dominated by ever-changing trends and technologies, our work is a valuable legacy."
"valuable legacy": converted/traced/repixeled AI pictures, someone arts, fake stages, cheating the graphics competitions, lies te audiences...
I made it a personal matter.
Because I know how hard it is to create anything from scratch, with my own knowledge!
I don't care if someone steals pictures, generates AI, makes a stupid montage of it and pixelates it.
This is an amateur, childish, lame thing on my part.
But do it. But then go to the Freestyle, AI category and you're done. Compete at your own level!
We're at the point where real artists don't add the entry at partys. Because pictures that cheaters end up in the top 3 and winning sometimes. Anyone who started at every party before, now only starts at those where the competition is equal. This is 3 maybe 4 party...
If he didn't enter the graphic competition, I wouldn't bother with him.
But he's NOT among the artists who create their images from scratch!
This is the major problem!
Critikill mass-producing "bullshit art" (converted/repixeled images).
The uninformed crowd applauds: "How beautiful"!
If they knew that the basis of these images was not his own, they wouldn't applaud.
He wouldn't even make it to the graphics competition, because they would disqualify him before it even happens. Just add fake stages, so anyone who doesn't know what to look for will believe it.
He shouts that "we don't respect his free art"...
Anyone who cheats the competition doesn't deserve respect!
This is the Critikill "legacy":
(A few examples, I could list them all...)
"Escape from Metaverse"
1st in the 68k Inside 2023 Combined Graphics competition:
Note: Did not inform the audience that it was using AI.
Entry: https://demozoo.org/graphics/323825/
Source: https://www.deviantart.com/dannypyle/art/VR-Life-1123064993
Compare: https://ibb.co/16RpM6D
"Freedom Comes Back"
"Guardian of the old Tales"
1st in the Silly Venture 2022 SE Atari ST/STE Graphics competition
Note: The original source of the image artist was not named.
Entry: https://demozoo.org/graphics/312175/
Source: https://www.deviantart.com/caraidart/art/Winter-Campaign-606770417
Compare: https://ibb.co/6nDGzmt
1st in the Function 2022 Oldschool Graphics competition
Entry: https://demozoo.org/graphics/313073/
Note: The original source of the image artist was not named.
It doesn't matter if the original author contributed to the image later.
This is a rework. This is not based your art.
Source: https://www.christopherlovell.com/product-page/plague-dr
Compare: https://ibb.co/PYLbphV
"Welcome to Omega 6"
1st in the Revision Online 2021 Oldskool Graphics competition:
Entry: https://demozoo.org/graphics/292445/
Note:The original source of the images artist was not named.
Source1: https://www.deviantart.com/softyrider62/art/Core-Effect-669499308
Source2: https://groovycorvid.tumblr.com/post/646752830582128640/etherax-art-by-andreas-werchmeister
Compare: https://ibb.co/SN6wtFd
Critikill "article" a next level (maybe AI based) bullshit!:D
"But for us, it's not just about the ideas and pixel art itself."
"In a world dominated by ever-changing trends and technologies, our work is a valuable legacy."
"valuable legacy": converted/traced/repixeled AI pictures, someone arts, fake stages, cheating the graphics competitions, lies te audiences...
I made it a personal matter.
Because I know how hard it is to create anything from scratch, with my own knowledge!
I don't care if someone steals pictures, generates AI, makes a stupid montage of it and pixelates it.
This is an amateur, childish, lame thing on my part.
But do it. But then go to the Freestyle, AI category and you're done. Compete at your own level!
We're at the point where real artists don't add the entry at partys. Because pictures that cheaters end up in the top 3 and winning sometimes. Anyone who started at every party before, now only starts at those where the competition is equal. This is 3 maybe 4 party...
If he didn't enter the graphic competition, I wouldn't bother with him.
But he's NOT among the artists who create their images from scratch!
This is the major problem!
Critikill mass-producing "bullshit art" (converted/repixeled images).
The uninformed crowd applauds: "How beautiful"!
If they knew that the basis of these images was not his own, they wouldn't applaud.
He wouldn't even make it to the graphics competition, because they would disqualify him before it even happens. Just add fake stages, so anyone who doesn't know what to look for will believe it.
He shouts that "we don't respect his free art"...
Anyone who cheats the competition doesn't deserve respect!
This is the Critikill "legacy":
(A few examples, I could list them all...)
"Escape from Metaverse"
1st in the 68k Inside 2023 Combined Graphics competition:
Note: Did not inform the audience that it was using AI.
Entry: https://demozoo.org/graphics/323825/
Source: https://www.deviantart.com/dannypyle/art/VR-Life-1123064993
Compare: https://ibb.co/16RpM6D
"Freedom Comes Back"
"Guardian of the old Tales"
1st in the Silly Venture 2022 SE Atari ST/STE Graphics competition
Note: The original source of the image artist was not named.
Entry: https://demozoo.org/graphics/312175/
Source: https://www.deviantart.com/caraidart/art/Winter-Campaign-606770417
Compare: https://ibb.co/6nDGzmt
1st in the Function 2022 Oldschool Graphics competition
Entry: https://demozoo.org/graphics/313073/
Note: The original source of the image artist was not named.
It doesn't matter if the original author contributed to the image later.
This is a rework. This is not based your art.
Source: https://www.christopherlovell.com/product-page/plague-dr
Compare: https://ibb.co/PYLbphV
"Welcome to Omega 6"
1st in the Revision Online 2021 Oldskool Graphics competition:
Entry: https://demozoo.org/graphics/292445/
Note:The original source of the images artist was not named.
Source1: https://www.deviantart.com/softyrider62/art/Core-Effect-669499308
Source2: https://groovycorvid.tumblr.com/post/646752830582128640/etherax-art-by-andreas-werchmeister
Compare: https://ibb.co/SN6wtFd
I guess Critikill got himself a die hard fan.
As i said: "most popular" not "best".
As i said: "most popular" not "best".
Nice work dudes!
@CopAss:
I observe scene gfx more closely since 2020. Especially Amiga ones and had the same impression, but did not take time to investigate (naively hoping I was wrong). Thank you for your effort, despite being sometimes bashed, dissed and even insulted.
Ha! During the Revision gfx-compo I wished to see "Welcome to Omega 6" on the real Amiga screen, without that "screen resolution cheating".
@hitchhiker
"I guess Critikill got himself a die hard fan."
Thy shall not joke... or your statement is ironic ;). Try to look at it as a gfx artist (taking part in the gfx-compos).
@CopAss:
I observe scene gfx more closely since 2020. Especially Amiga ones and had the same impression, but did not take time to investigate (naively hoping I was wrong). Thank you for your effort, despite being sometimes bashed, dissed and even insulted.
Ha! During the Revision gfx-compo I wished to see "Welcome to Omega 6" on the real Amiga screen, without that "screen resolution cheating".
@hitchhiker
"I guess Critikill got himself a die hard fan."
Thy shall not joke... or your statement is ironic ;). Try to look at it as a gfx artist (taking part in the gfx-compos).
I think it's not a good idea to use this space, intended to talk (and vote) about Versus #10, to criticize the sources of inspiration of any artist. Why don't use a separate thread for that? :]
Quote:
to criticize the sources of inspiration of any artist
this is not a criticism, but facts.
these "pictures" are far from being a criticism of anyone! :D
inspiration? let's call it theft, that's more appropriate.
Probably not the correct space but good to have the point somewhere... And also the point about high quality gfx somehow appearing at the same time with AI possibilities. But probably accidentally!
Now with this ☝️ information I guess I need to read the Archmage opinion piece from this mag again.
nice
This has been going on for a while, sadly. Amiga scene is kind of destroyed with AI and converting because the platform makes it so easy to do. On the C64 scene it is a bit more work to convert AI into something that looks good due to all the restrictions, but people still do it and send it in to compos.
This is why I don't do Amiga, only C64 but its getting more and more difficult to be interested in this platform too with AI creeping into it and people hiding it.
This is why I don't do Amiga, only C64 but its getting more and more difficult to be interested in this platform too with AI creeping into it and people hiding it.
Now I get to the "AI survey among Amiga graphicians" article...
Critikill and Facet "talented" artist?!
wtf?!:D simple copycats!
Facet create a montage other artist works,AI and repixeling...
https://c64gfx.com/artist/21388/facet
winnning top 3 graphic competitions, all copy, rework bullshit:
but, Archmage he got to the point:
We need to separate "cheater" images from real creations.
eg: AI, freestyle category. these have existed before.
But we need to take the purity of the entries seriously, because it is true that cheaters are submitting "fake stages"...
this is how the "cheater" managed to keep real artists away from graphic competitions.
This "talented artist" release 5-6 AI gen/copy image/month...
They were flooded the demoscene with AI converted shit.
Several graphic artist have joined forces and are offering to the organizers to pre-judge the entries for the graphic competition.
This is the humanmadepixels.
https://blog.ookoohko.com/2024/07/16/graphics-on-c64-demoscene-guide-of-ethics/
Excerpt from the document:
Quote:
when Made or Facet or Critikill create a piece of pixel art, they are setting a bar to strive for and learn from.
Critikill and Facet "talented" artist?!
wtf?!:D simple copycats!
Facet create a montage other artist works,AI and repixeling...
https://c64gfx.com/artist/21388/facet
winnning top 3 graphic competitions, all copy, rework bullshit:
but, Archmage he got to the point:
Quote:
- The C64 and Amiga pixel scene has gone to shit because of AI already, and is not interesting to me as an artist anymore. Most people don't care how an image is made as long as it has a WOW-factor, so in that sense AI is already accepted. We all know that several of the big guns in the scene use AI all the time, and with some exceptions they are not very open about it. It is only wrong if you get caught, right?
We need to separate "cheater" images from real creations.
eg: AI, freestyle category. these have existed before.
But we need to take the purity of the entries seriously, because it is true that cheaters are submitting "fake stages"...
this is how the "cheater" managed to keep real artists away from graphic competitions.
This "talented artist" release 5-6 AI gen/copy image/month...
They were flooded the demoscene with AI converted shit.
Several graphic artist have joined forces and are offering to the organizers to pre-judge the entries for the graphic competition.
This is the humanmadepixels.
https://blog.ookoohko.com/2024/07/16/graphics-on-c64-demoscene-guide-of-ethics/
Excerpt from the document:
Quote:
Graphics competitions:
The demoscene is often competitive. This has been an important part of the C64 scene for most of its 40 year history and graphics competitions are a natural part of this. Their tradition is to emphasise creativity. Most competitions rely on strict rules set by the organisers in order to ensure that the prize (a trophy, money, or sometimes just kudos) is given to the one that deserves it.
It will often be the case that:
- The artist is expected to reveal elements of their process in order to demonstrate the originality of the art.
- The artist is asked to provide work stages (5–10) or a timelapse of the creation process, from an empty screen to the final piece..
- The artist is expected to reveal their references, either as images or a written description.
- When working on a remake or “fan art”, the artist is expected to reference the inspiration or original piece (if applicable).
- You are expected to follow copyright laws.
- The submitted artworks might be pre-juried.
- Use of AI and conversion tools is commonly frowned upon.
In general, those who are not pixelling, are not artists or do not pay attention to the details, do not see that.
I understand the inspiration from the nature, using some small elements from the photos or even redraw some thingies from them, but... I am kinda sad that ppl let the gfx got spoiled by the AI.
Had a talk about it with some party-orgaz and proposed to introduce the grafixman statement that no AI was used together with a dedicated jury. We will see what it would bring.
Sadly, some of my connaissances told me they would not participate in the gfx compo anymore due to that fact of AI usage. At least for now... Well, that's like that.
Back in the daze ppl were redrawing Boris Vallejo, Soroyama or other artists or photos. It was a different époque. Those - at least - were drawn and finished pixel by pixel.
Ofcourse there were sometimes scanner-cheaters as well, but at least it was not too often. The scene was harder and ppl risked their name and position ;).
Cheers.
I understand the inspiration from the nature, using some small elements from the photos or even redraw some thingies from them, but... I am kinda sad that ppl let the gfx got spoiled by the AI.
Had a talk about it with some party-orgaz and proposed to introduce the grafixman statement that no AI was used together with a dedicated jury. We will see what it would bring.
Sadly, some of my connaissances told me they would not participate in the gfx compo anymore due to that fact of AI usage. At least for now... Well, that's like that.
Back in the daze ppl were redrawing Boris Vallejo, Soroyama or other artists or photos. It was a different époque. Those - at least - were drawn and finished pixel by pixel.
Ofcourse there were sometimes scanner-cheaters as well, but at least it was not too often. The scene was harder and ppl risked their name and position ;).
Cheers.
It could be argued that the value of some works lies in precisely that:
Montage and dithering. No?
I find it presumptious if someone told me what I'm supposed to value, and what not. For me, some pieces have Photoshop and internet written all over them. It was just a guess that some of them may also have AI written all over them, but does it have to matter? You can still find compositions, dither work and other aspects awesome.
Montage and dithering. No?
I find it presumptious if someone told me what I'm supposed to value, and what not. For me, some pieces have Photoshop and internet written all over them. It was just a guess that some of them may also have AI written all over them, but does it have to matter? You can still find compositions, dither work and other aspects awesome.
Quote:
It could be argued that the value of some works lies in precisely that:
Montage and dithering. No?
I want to see his work, not how he can copy his own image from other works...
Copass, you are of course free to dislike some piece of art because it doesn't meet your expectations.
@Bifat:
(...)it doesn't meet your expectations.(...)
Just one (calm and personal) remark.
Impo, it is not only about meeting the expectations, but also about... well, le's call it "unfair competition" (especially during the gfx-compos).
OK. Do not want to start a new discussion here =).
(...)it doesn't meet your expectations.(...)
Just one (calm and personal) remark.
Impo, it is not only about meeting the expectations, but also about... well, le's call it "unfair competition" (especially during the gfx-compos).
OK. Do not want to start a new discussion here =).
Appreciate all your comments. Versus is a contribution of many voices, a time frame of different perspectives in the Amiga scene.
AI: If you are curious about others opinions, I encourage you to read the AI-section we have, where many graphicians and people rooted in the Amiga scene 20-35 years tells about their view.
Hope you appreciate the diskmag in this thread, and your AI-discussion somewhere else :)
...or you can quote Versus 10 and continue to discuss the -hot topic- here, that we also like, its fair to the product itself, isnt it? :)
thanks
AI: If you are curious about others opinions, I encourage you to read the AI-section we have, where many graphicians and people rooted in the Amiga scene 20-35 years tells about their view.
Hope you appreciate the diskmag in this thread, and your AI-discussion somewhere else :)
...or you can quote Versus 10 and continue to discuss the -hot topic- here, that we also like, its fair to the product itself, isnt it? :)
thanks
Versus 10 is raising an interesting topic and you don't want to have it discussed here? Do you know any better place? Soo... obviously Versus 10 lacks some internet link and comment function. :-)
submit changes
if this prod is a fake, some info is false or the download link is broken,
do not post about it in the comments, it will get lost.
instead, click here !
Contributors are like 30-40 people, and anno 2024, we are happy we got 70+ votes. The OS4 is a seperate engine and will join tomorrow :)
ARTICLE CONTRIBUTION:
briteLite/Dekadence^RNO, Critikill/SWEET16, Cefa68000/Nukleus, Darkhawk/IRIS, deadguy (interviewed), Ghandy/Nukleus, greippi/Zymosis^Limbo (interviewed), Jazzcat/Ghostown, jPV/RNO, Judge Drokk^ex Anarchy, MDW/Encore (interviewed), Menthos/Nukleus, Puni/Void, Radiant, Ramone B5/Desire (interviewed), Romeo Knight/Brainstorm, saiibot/Nukleus, scamp (interviewed), Smaugur/Nukleus, STI/SCA, tecon/pjz^dsr, truck/Accession, v3nom, Weyland, Wix, Wolfman/Balance, Zerox/Gods and Browallia/Nukleus
SURVEY PARTICIPATION:
Archmage, cheetah, dan dee, Facet, farfar, Frost, malmix, Prowler, Razorback, Slayer, xeNusion
DISKMAG EMERITUS, main-editor appearances from:
D.I.S.C, Eurochart, Jurassic Pack, Stolen Data,
Taboo, Upstream, and Cows n Snakefights
Versus staff:
Balder, cefa68000, Ghandy, Menthos, Smaugur and Browallia of Nukleus
hukka, Emufr3ak, and Puni of Void
more credits in the readme and of course in the magazine,
enjoy and seasonal Xmas greetings!