pouët.net

memon information 18 glöps

• general:
• level: user
• personal:
• first name: Mikko
• last name: Mononen

• invitation Windows Assembly 2004 invitation by Moppi Productions
• You asked for it:
  
  www.moppiproductions.net/products/moppi-fssetup10.exe
  
  The Moppi Flower Saver... it might crash your com and send email to your boss. Use with caution... enjoy ;)
• isokadded on the 2004-10-19 16:36:55
• invitation Windows Assembly 2004 invitation by Moppi Productions
• 'oi! thanks for the awesome feedback :)
  
  It's good to see both likes & hates, 'cos it seems to shows that we've hit the target demographic :) And you know it's impossible to please everyone anyway.
  
  I was truly surprised that it was even shown at BP, not to even imagine it could win something! We usually try to win something, and come second, but this time the second place came even our intention was just to make to the big screen. Now that's irony.
  
  Thanks to Abyss for suggesting to puting it into the show, and special thanks goes to Melwyn too for being the special agent at germany.
  
  The effect possibly is not all original, but I can tell from the comments that it was original in this context. I once saw a showreel from some brasilian company (IIRC), where I got the idea for the growing flower. That flower/whatever on the reel was more pop-design like (as last koneisto).. I was thinking more about the japanese wood/paper cut illustrations as inspirator for this one. You could put one of those birds on that flower :) The effect was supposed to be part of my origami-safari themed VJ set, which in the end turned to be yet another robot-show :)
  
  We're #2, so why try harder ;)
• isokadded on the 2004-04-17 22:08:56
• demo Windows ix by Moppi Productions
• I like this conversation :)
  
  I think Rock's comment describes one way of thinking demos very clearly (I bet that's what the Duke was trying to say too). A kind of techie demoskener. If you checkout his website, I think you can anlyse more of his personality :) I dont think he's more wrong than Alkama, they just have very different perspective and experiences on demos. I must admit that I'm more into Alkama's opinioin here. Demos are a means of expressing something to me.
  
  But... the medium makes it possible to make many different things, in different form. Like, I can create the best music and just include few blinking dots to describe the feeling (hmm... just remembered satori ;), or I can create a hi-tech technical demonstration showing off all the latest tricks. All the rest combinations are also possible. Then depending on the background of the viewer they will judge one demo better than the other.
  
  The experienced sceners/viewers will notice the good and emphasised points in any good demo. I can respect a Farbrausch demo, even I think the music sucks, and I dont like the visual style at all :) Still I can enjoy and respect such demo!
  
  Saying that I think you can watch our demos and dont like them at all. It's just a matter of taste. But some of the comments I've seen here really shows how immature some viewers are (or they are just bad verbally). I think it's immature to put everything you dont understand in the "sucks" cathegory. It helps a lot to judge demos if you have ever tried to make one. I have not seens a demo from some of the biggest mouths in this thread (or maybe they are just using different nicks in their prods, dunno). So that you really know: "where is the hard work?".
  
  This whole conversation comes from the fact that a demoscene is in the end just a postmodern tribe, which means that it's constantly changing and also that even this is a postmodern tribe, the hierarchy inside it is very modern. The people who has established their position inside the tribe would like the scene to follow their mind for ever. But it changes, and when the change is noticable enough (usually means they are lagging their time) they start to shout that the scene is dying :) The era is dying, not the whole world (or from their point of view the whole world collapses)... kind of :)
• isokadded on the 2003-08-24 19:51:02
• demo Windows ix by Moppi Productions
• (again targetted to the Duke)
  The demo is realtime for the platform it was made for, and the platform is the compo machine at ASM. It was not made for older cards which does not support the cababilities the code was designed for. Like yours, Duke Raoul, sir.
  
  What is the point making Amiga demos as most people has to watch then as videos? Should all Amiga demos be in the wild compo?
  
  I agree that my coding skills does not go so far that I could make for example the ix run 60fps on my machine (I have not checked the framerate, but I guess it's something near 20-30 most of the time). I hate system coding, I cut corners, I make it fast enough for me.
  
  If I have to decided between "looks good", and "runs fast", I choose "looks good". You would not, and that's ok for me. As long as the demo runs fine (20-30 fps is fine for me), on the target machine it was made for, I'm happy.
  
  Based on your comments here I could say that you solely compare demos on how smoothly they run. That's very good to judge because it might be the only thing you can measure in demos with a common scale. It cannot be forgotten though it's one of the definitions of the medium (real-time), but it really should not be the only criteria. It's like judging a painting based only on the techinque. (And now read the first paragraph again to see how the demo is realtime).
  
  I cannot know how you think unless you tell me. But based on your output I can make quite a lot of assumptions about you. And even conclusions, like if you say that our demo is slow, I can safely assume that you think it is important that a demo runs smoothly.
  
  I think the point of making demos in general is to show what you can do in the given limitations. It gives you the extra motivation to make the demo. I think all the demomakers are seeking for that "how the hell did you make that" comment from every person who saw the demo. You usually dont get there, that's a fact :)
  
  Now wait... I want some popcorn too, and a t-shirt reading "Where is all the hard work?"
• isokadded on the 2003-08-20 02:09:56
• demo Windows ix by Moppi Productions
• (this is pretty much targetted to raoul...)
  "KILL LAMERS." .... "That's my opinion,and if you do not like it,screw you."
  
  Do you expect anytone to respond something nice to that? I had to count to ten not to shout: "Fuck of you shithead!" Ups. Are you screwing too since there are other people who has opions too. In Finland we have this thing called: "niin kaivo vastaa kuin sinne huudetaan."
  
  
  If you think there were better demos that ix in the compo, why it ranked so high then? It can be just a matter of taste.
  
  
  Demos are judged (in the compo) from the impression they give in the five minutes they are shown on the big screen. You dont see them run on all the different HW possible. Each compo is different because there's different audience to judge the demo, there's different rules, and there's equipment the stuff is run on.
  
  
  I dont judge demos based on how smoothly they run. Also my (and I dare to say also our, referring ot the whole moppi crew) intention is not to show of my (our) dick in public ten minutes shouting: "Look, this is my dick!" They did that very well in '96 (7200 env mapped polygons, anyone?). I want the whole public to feel that I'm showing my dick, but they dont understand it even when they have seen it and leaved the hall.
  
  In a way I feel like I'm getting in to the romantisism era (comparing to the history of art). I want the people to feel something when they see our demo :)
  
  
  I checked out your other comments on various demos, and I saw that you judge the demos based on 1) how "demo" they look 2) how good effects they have 3) how smoothly they run.
  
  I think that's quite naive way to interpret a demo. When I got to know demos, once upon a time, those were excatly the qualifications the demos were judge with. Go read some Two Headed Squirrel stuff at: http://ths.demoscene.org. Even I dont agree with him all the time, I think his way if analysing stuff is just great.
  
  
  You said that: "...especially when you do not have something really new to show"
  
  Code-wise, maybe not, but if I had not made the decisions for the code, the outcome would not had been like it is now. So I had something new to show, but you may not see it. In contrast to what it used to be I want to incorporate the effects I have in to some broader context. You dont have to see that this thing I'm displaying now is a metball, but if I have something to say I can use some metaballs to describe the best I propably am going to use some balls. There's a saying in the typography that the best typography is invisible. Meaning that if something is typographically good, you can read it fluently.
  
  
  I think we have a totally different point of view on the code. I see it as a way to represent something I have in my mind. Kind of I can build my own tools to make something I want to express. You see the code only as an effect without the context. Code is my canvas.
• isokadded on the 2003-08-20 00:37:52
• demo Windows ix by Moppi Productions
• Raoul, it was my choise alone to code this demo for a PC. I can spend about one month a year making demos. That's how much time I can afford it. That also means cutting corners where possible. I did not choose to code this demo on amiga or any other platform because I know the PC the best and it was available for me.
  
  I use OpenGL for rendering. It makes my life harder sometimes. Like I cannot use pixel shaders because my card does not support it under OpenGL. Still I wanted to... because I had a couple of effects in mind which would fit to our demo very well. I decided to use some OpenGL extensions which might not be available on all machines to achieve my goal. I chose to use a nVidia only extension because I knew that I could make it to work on the newer hardware later on (where the pixel shaders are available). Even I did this terrible thing the demo still complied the rules of the demo compo at Assembly.
  
  Sure we could have made yet another wobbly object show, but we decided not to. As I meantioned I wanted to have some effects to back up the demo, like the glow thing, and the raster effect. There's very much you can do with the basic OpenGL setup as you have noticed from other demos. But it just did not fit to our needs. For example in one effect I wanted to use "darken" (in Photoshop terms) blending mode instead of "multiply". You might not even see the difference, but I was not happy about the "multiply" so I coded few lines and I had what I needed.
  
  The people who whine about the state of the demoscene, and the lack of creativity on the coding frontier usually forget the fucked up situation there is to deal with. The situation is that the whole setup changes every six months. This puts quite a lot of expectations and extra work to the coders. If I want to move forward I also need to make the decision to not to support the past.
  
  I cant see you complaining that some '95 demos does not work on your machine. Same platform... time has just gone two humps forward and the demos has to rest in DVD. This is the nature of the medium the demos are made for, the medium is temporary. It only exists some time and after that it's gone. The faster the growth is the faster everything get's passé. Blame capitalism.
  
  This demo is not ever going to run well on your poor HW, Raoul. I'm so sorry Raoul. But still, this is a demo even it does not run on your machine. I'm utterly sorry if we pissed on your lawn by releasing this demo.
  
  --
  
  I think the problem with the GF Mx cards is that they promote some extensions they support only on software rendering. Some of the effects use the min/max and substract blending modes (thru-out the demo). IIRC the blending modes are part of OpenGL extension called "imaging". It's part of OpenGL standard (IIRC 1.2 or something), and it's usually only partly accelerated.
  
  The radeon problem is the dependant texture read, which is used in some effects. The extension used is nVidia only (the texture shader kludge). When I get new graphics cards I'll fix the demo so that it'll run on new radeons and geforces. There's no way to make the demo available on older cards. Sorry... I wont make a half featured version, there's no point in it, you unfortunately have to resort to the divx instead, or upgrade :)
• isokadded on the 2003-08-19 23:13:57
• demo Windows ix by Moppi Productions
• hmm... I was wondering why the demo is so slow on soma machines, and I might found the reason. "ix" uses some extended blending modes, line min_max, and substract, which may cause the white, black screens on some machines. And there might be some shit in the render_to_texture stuff. If some of that (for example the blending) is done in software (IIRC the blending is part of the opengl imaging extension which is mostly software only) that would explain the 1fps rendering.
  
  To be fixed...
• isokadded on the 2003-08-17 16:58:20
• demo Windows ix by Moppi Productions
• night, really strange. Could you test two things for me on your work machine.
  
  1) If you rename the music file to something else, does it still do the same thing?
  2) Does our previous demos work on that machine?
• isokadded on the 2003-08-13 23:47:29
• demo Windows ix by Moppi Productions
• night, :)
  
  uncle-x, we'll make an acid-punk version for you ;)
  
  rp, strange. Does our other demos work better on your machine? I would not wonder if the demo ran 1.1 fps on GF2, but I have Athlon 2000XP, and GF4, and works just fine. If you have bad AGP, it'll be slow.
  
• isokadded on the 2003-08-13 15:47:17
• demo Windows ix by Moppi Productions
• random, yeah just hold you shit, and you'll have nice load to put in pants next year... I would have liked the slap on my face this year too, so dont chicken next year ;D
• isokadded on the 2003-08-12 13:32:26