Planning a new NA demoparty
category: general [glöplog]
people are giving you good advices, start small and then built from that bigger year by year.
Start big - it's easier than they claim! In Norway, we organize parties with 50-100 visitors. Since the population of Norway is around 4.8 million people, and the US has around 300 million people, you can easily assume you'll get 4000 visitors. And this is without including the fact that you'll organize the super-awesomest party ever, so people will be willing to travel half way around the world to attend! With these visitor-figures, there's no limit to what decadent party features you can plan! I'd go for a chocolate fountain! How could this possibly fail?
The guys have basically said it all already, just one thing to add about the economy. If you don't want to risk losing money on the party, plan your budget over the smallest possible realistic visitor count.
That doesn't mean put the entrance fee up if your realistic count is small, since that potentially makes even less people show up. What it does mean is that you know what you can spend safely. It's nice to have hopes for a higher attendance, and if you get that you can a) save the money for next years party or b) up the compo prices at the end of the party - but at least you won't end up having too big a sum to cover if things doesn't go the way you want.
(For Kindergarden we used to split the bills among the organizers before the party and get the money back after the party, but since we've gone plus the last x years using this model we now have enough money to ensure next years party is more or less paid for even before we organize it.)
That doesn't mean put the entrance fee up if your realistic count is small, since that potentially makes even less people show up. What it does mean is that you know what you can spend safely. It's nice to have hopes for a higher attendance, and if you get that you can a) save the money for next years party or b) up the compo prices at the end of the party - but at least you won't end up having too big a sum to cover if things doesn't go the way you want.
(For Kindergarden we used to split the bills among the organizers before the party and get the money back after the party, but since we've gone plus the last x years using this model we now have enough money to ensure next years party is more or less paid for even before we organize it.)
And yes, I know I'm stating the obvious with that. But on the other hand, I have seen examples of people not thinking realisticly, planning a party for 400 visitors - and getting 20.
leijaa, you norwegians have oil, you could organise kindergarden for 1000 years with that!
That oil doesn't even give norwegian kids places in a real kindergarten..
If it's held over summer, I'll probably show up.
if a non-urban location is no problem, scouting huts and group accomodations are pretty ideal. at least on this side of the pond, these locations are known to charge a per-visitor fee, typically with a minimum visitor count though (which is negotiable). this means that in fact, the risk of the largest expense (location rental) is shared with the location owner.
this has worked fine for outline for many years. the location for 2009 has 100 beds and space for 150+ people in the partyhall, yet we're only bound to a 60 attendants mimimum. for any visitor over those 60, we get exactly (ticketPrice - locationFeePerPerson) euros that we can spend extra. some excel.exe'ing showed that we're out of red figures at about 50 attendants already; that is if we don't overdo the extras and use borrowed (non-super-quality) material. this is a very comfortable situation, because we're pretty sure that we'll have at least 50 people (see leijaa's post). nevertheless, we can host up to 150 (given that the last 50 bring their own air matress, as they won't be able to get a bed).
so leijaa is right; this is the order in which i'd start up:
1) decide how many attendents you're really quite sure are coming (#1)
2) decide on a preliminary ticket price (you can adjust it later) that you think is reasonable (#2)
3) multiply #1 and #2. that's your budget. (#3)
4) take 90% of that, to cover for unforeseen costs.
5) find a location that you can rent for that budget. if you have a pay-per-visitor location, the minimum amount of visitors you can guarantee must not exceed (#4 / location-fee-per-visitor). this is the crucial point. the venue you can have depends on this requirement, and nothing else. if "that other venue" is cooler, but you're sure #1 really isn't higher than you initially thought, then you're significantly increasing risk. that's risk, not loss, but still.
6) book a date at that location, and spam the world. make a preliminary website as early as possible, to be sure that you do make that barrier at #1.
after that, once the party is getting closer, you can refine your assessments, maybe change the ticket price, decide that you really do have more visitors and can rent decent equipment instead of borrowing your friend's cousin's beamer, etcetera. all of that is for *later*, first complete steps 1-6. especially for a new party, in an area that hasn't had parties for ages already, early announcement is very important; and for announcing a party, you need a location and a date. that's all you need. you don't even need to announce the ticket price, the features, hell, you can even save the name for later if you want.
as #1 is the most important step and possibly also one of the more difficult steps, in your situation i think i'd do serious effort finding out who would consider attending such a party - ask around on forums, make a poll of some sorts, do irc, etcetera. ask whether people would consider attending. find out how many panamericans would buy a plane ticket for it. etc etc. do this *while* searching for a location for your very-first-call-#1-guess.
ok, sorry if all of the above was obvious, and i hope this helps :-)
this has worked fine for outline for many years. the location for 2009 has 100 beds and space for 150+ people in the partyhall, yet we're only bound to a 60 attendants mimimum. for any visitor over those 60, we get exactly (ticketPrice - locationFeePerPerson) euros that we can spend extra. some excel.exe'ing showed that we're out of red figures at about 50 attendants already; that is if we don't overdo the extras and use borrowed (non-super-quality) material. this is a very comfortable situation, because we're pretty sure that we'll have at least 50 people (see leijaa's post). nevertheless, we can host up to 150 (given that the last 50 bring their own air matress, as they won't be able to get a bed).
so leijaa is right; this is the order in which i'd start up:
1) decide how many attendents you're really quite sure are coming (#1)
2) decide on a preliminary ticket price (you can adjust it later) that you think is reasonable (#2)
3) multiply #1 and #2. that's your budget. (#3)
4) take 90% of that, to cover for unforeseen costs.
5) find a location that you can rent for that budget. if you have a pay-per-visitor location, the minimum amount of visitors you can guarantee must not exceed (#4 / location-fee-per-visitor). this is the crucial point. the venue you can have depends on this requirement, and nothing else. if "that other venue" is cooler, but you're sure #1 really isn't higher than you initially thought, then you're significantly increasing risk. that's risk, not loss, but still.
6) book a date at that location, and spam the world. make a preliminary website as early as possible, to be sure that you do make that barrier at #1.
after that, once the party is getting closer, you can refine your assessments, maybe change the ticket price, decide that you really do have more visitors and can rent decent equipment instead of borrowing your friend's cousin's beamer, etcetera. all of that is for *later*, first complete steps 1-6. especially for a new party, in an area that hasn't had parties for ages already, early announcement is very important; and for announcing a party, you need a location and a date. that's all you need. you don't even need to announce the ticket price, the features, hell, you can even save the name for later if you want.
as #1 is the most important step and possibly also one of the more difficult steps, in your situation i think i'd do serious effort finding out who would consider attending such a party - ask around on forums, make a poll of some sorts, do irc, etcetera. ask whether people would consider attending. find out how many panamericans would buy a plane ticket for it. etc etc. do this *while* searching for a location for your very-first-call-#1-guess.
ok, sorry if all of the above was obvious, and i hope this helps :-)
oh, and if you're considering getting a "typical" venue (i.e. some hall somewhere), make sure that people are allowed to randomly crash in places or that there's some empty room to be used as a sleeping hall. this part is not trivial, as very (very) many places have fire regulations preventing such usage at all (or requiring huge security / fireguaring personnel costs). this (and sound allowance), might make finding a venue more difficult than it seems.
finally, you'll always have risk. if you want 0 risk, don't organise a demoparty. get some more people on board, and maybe decide to share the risk with some organisers that you really trust (not too many! 3 people total is max i'd say, unless you five go *way* back). trust is important here - not just trusting that the others won't pull your leg, but for being able to resolve conflicts and disagreements. after all, you're both in it with your own money and if you want A and the other guy wants B and you can't resolve it, then you have a serious problem (especially if A is significantly riskier than B, or vice versa). demoparties have miserably failed because of just this one issue.
as an example: havoc and me currently share the risk for outline 2009. we discussed pr-gear for at breakpoint, and i wanted to spend more than he did. because he's in it with his money too, i caved in, even though i still would have liked to spend more on it, and even though i'm the "main organiser", whatever that means; after all, his choice was the less risky one (and in this case he does have more experience with these things than me). somewhere i'd have loved to just make all of those decisions myself, to just say "this is going to be it, i'm the main guy, just do it". but i won't, because there's other people involved, and some of them are even involved financially.
moral of the story: if you can, share the risk with others, but be prepared to get a party that's slightly different from what you've envisioned alone. of course the above still applies when others are involved just by effort, and not financially (as you do not want to demotivate other organisers by dumping all their ideas), but it holds much more strongly if you're sharing financial risk.
good luck!
finally, you'll always have risk. if you want 0 risk, don't organise a demoparty. get some more people on board, and maybe decide to share the risk with some organisers that you really trust (not too many! 3 people total is max i'd say, unless you five go *way* back). trust is important here - not just trusting that the others won't pull your leg, but for being able to resolve conflicts and disagreements. after all, you're both in it with your own money and if you want A and the other guy wants B and you can't resolve it, then you have a serious problem (especially if A is significantly riskier than B, or vice versa). demoparties have miserably failed because of just this one issue.
as an example: havoc and me currently share the risk for outline 2009. we discussed pr-gear for at breakpoint, and i wanted to spend more than he did. because he's in it with his money too, i caved in, even though i still would have liked to spend more on it, and even though i'm the "main organiser", whatever that means; after all, his choice was the less risky one (and in this case he does have more experience with these things than me). somewhere i'd have loved to just make all of those decisions myself, to just say "this is going to be it, i'm the main guy, just do it". but i won't, because there's other people involved, and some of them are even involved financially.
moral of the story: if you can, share the risk with others, but be prepared to get a party that's slightly different from what you've envisioned alone. of course the above still applies when others are involved just by effort, and not financially (as you do not want to demotivate other organisers by dumping all their ideas), but it holds much more strongly if you're sharing financial risk.
good luck!
oh, and excel is your friend.
hello:
we actually did that last summer :) http://klfo.com/mini-demoparty/june-2008.html
i agree completely.
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start with a small school hall, a cheap domestic projector, beer and a home stereo system. if it's fairly successful (ie: you get => 30 visitors) try again for the next few years until it grows. how about that?
we actually did that last summer :) http://klfo.com/mini-demoparty/june-2008.html
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Don't try to force anything from NVscene on your own party.
i agree completely.
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Don't try to force anything from NVscene on your own party.
What I really meant there was abusing the dates and hype, not anything related to nVidia directly or indirectly.
Being a Bay-Area party, you really do need to take advantage of word-of-mouth, but you need a helping hand. What I'd heartilly suggest is that you do a press release and send it to someone like Revision-3, probably to a show like Systm, where they pride themselves on making the most out of a little.
If they feature you, you've just bumped your attendee count by 100.
If they feature you, you've just bumped your attendee count by 100.
If it works out, I'll come; it would be my only party in 2009
..I was at NVScene last year, and I'd love a summer party to go to.
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oh, and excel is your friend.
Actually, Google Docs is your friend, because then you can share them with your co-organizers (you _do_ have someone to work with I hope? Doing something like this all alone is way too much work).
LiraNuna: you should perhaps try to not hit the exact same dates as NVScene, since it is likely to return at some point in the future, and it would be a damn shame if 66.66% of all US demoparties took place on the same time, almost on the same city. :)
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NVscene was only successful because of one thing and you can't supply that.
Seeing as you weren't there or had anything at all to do with the arranging of the party Okkie, it's getting tiresome to constantly get this kind of rubbish. You didn't like NVScene - we get it.
gloom, i do the excel by myself, yes. it's three sheets all together, hardly worth a mention.
but yeah, if you hate useful features and love web two point OH! (or can't do with an xlsx in a subversion), you can use google docs too :-)
anyways, what i meant, of course, was "spreadsheet software is your friend".
but yeah, if you hate useful features and love web two point OH! (or can't do with an xlsx in a subversion), you can use google docs too :-)
anyways, what i meant, of course, was "spreadsheet software is your friend".
gd + liran: And guess what, after all these years attending ever bigger parties, I found extremely good visiting a small one-day one where you could actually talk to people and fit many of them to a single table in the bar afterwards :)
An option we took for bgparty 2005 was to borrow a house outside the city for the weekend and fit 30 people there, charge something like 35-ish euro per person, and use all the money to cover food and drink expenses. one of the orgos, ayame, prepared the food herself.
doing it at a private house meant we set our own rules regarding boozing / sleeping, which is a big plus.
also of note, to kickstart the scene stuff there, you can consider arranging the small meetings twice or thrice a year... this means people get to know each other better and have better opportunities to release.
An option we took for bgparty 2005 was to borrow a house outside the city for the weekend and fit 30 people there, charge something like 35-ish euro per person, and use all the money to cover food and drink expenses. one of the orgos, ayame, prepared the food herself.
doing it at a private house meant we set our own rules regarding boozing / sleeping, which is a big plus.
also of note, to kickstart the scene stuff there, you can consider arranging the small meetings twice or thrice a year... this means people get to know each other better and have better opportunities to release.
