pouët.net

Because traditions always have to continue forever and should never be questioned, right?

Go make a demo about it!

And yes, if you overdo double submissions people will tell you by downvoting it, no problem with that.

Let people release where they wish to. Except replaying exactly as such pre-released productions, reusing assets is ok. I seem to recall some of this year Meteoriks' winners did exactly that. On a side note, Flush was nice enough to use a music track by Cyb0rg4 in its Revision wild release named Twis and it was ofc downscaled for GBA. I really like the track, although I don't think we would release it at a music compo since already used, but it's really a matter of personal taste - not bothered if people do so. Here is the full 7 minutes long 44khz track if you are interested.

For smaller scenes / parties I think double entries often play the role of compo savers which I totally prefer over no compos at all. For bigger parties it might be a different subject.

On a sidenote, I often felt sorry for graphicians with a good picture being shown few seconds only. The creation time / showtime ratio is just such a pity, that I am mostly a bit relieved when I discover the same good graphics in demos later on again.

However, I think it should be the author who makes the decision on adequate submitting manners. We should try be gentlemen and chose wisely :)

you missed the point - it _is_ a traditional thing to do, period - whether you like it or not. and if you don't like it, use your voting power to express what you think, its that easy. banning it is a ridiculous idea however - as if it ever was a serious problem.

This.
If it stands well on it's own then I don't really see anything wrong with this, unless it's a single screener with the gfx being the main dish, then maybe.
It's not like you can't change vote points afterwards if you really feel cheated that the entry was featured on both gfx/demo compos.

Plus it's a way to compete on the same field with other artists, factoring out the code/rest that come with a full demo. You don't really gain any real advantages, only stuff I can think of are perhaps knowing more on what technical stuff went in to the gfx/music (tools used or technical achievements shown on slide) and a brief second screening in case of graphics, more on music, but those more rarely appear on music compos.
By the time the demo compo arrives, gfx/music compos have generally been shown/voted for and potential recycles can be spotted (providing that people actually watched those instead of being drunk outdoors :p )

Anyway that's how I see this.

also, what about http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=58317?

if gfx/msx from demo is released at THE SAME party its kind of advertisement - repetition effect = +- 25% more votes for demo (if stuff is good :)

+ more scene stuff (better compos) – always good :)
- hmm – imagine if one demo in compo is played twice ;)
- one work, two prizes problem – why not to release 1 gfx for modern and oldschool then?

hmm
there were at least two situations where gfx was shown in both compos (oldschool converted from modern) - and I felt like "I don't know what to think about, but its mess"

If gfx from demo is released later = not good (only unreleased stuff for compo)
If demo with previously shown gfx is released on some other party = ok

imo its up to orgas - clear rules and "if you don't like it – go play in another sandbox" ;)


(I didn't read all posts here - just arrived at home)


PS
Traditions?
Hooray - lets start coping Vallejo again, and scan magazines covers :)

Btw just relised watching stream video - oldschool gfx display time
(from title to workstages)
slayer - the dark is rising - 10sec
jok - atlantis - 9 sec.
veto - racoons - 47 sec.
;)

yeah tits and dragons \o/ (and dont forget the victoria secrets!)

Since demos are pretty much always shown at the end, it is the demos that pretty much always suffer the price of having not fully fresh content. I think that I personally would always be able to take this into account when voting and cannot see why people are so serious insisting this must evforced not to ever happen.

The argument that I found particularly dubious is about artists and musicians not being greedy and giving other people chance to win as well. In my mind, this directly suggests that if the graphics and music are of such quality as to even threaten to take other people's chances, perhaps, they should be allowed to double entry, and if they don't - no-one cares, right?

It is as if Oscars nominees would be allowed to only nominate in a single category. To give shit films a chance too.

I actually quite like the practice.

For me, seeing a nice picture in a graphics compo and then, later at the same party, seeing that picture put into context in a demo, creates a sense of connection between the compos and transforms the party experience from a series of independent compos into a coherent whole.

After all these posts, could someone finally list the offending compo tunes that "unfairly" dropped someone's chances for succeeding or getting attention or something.

The only two I remember were:

• The Zarahustler
  
• Wanna Say Thank U
  

From an oldschool graphics POV, this is just a totally horrible idea. I'm just not going to spend 30-40-50 hours on a single fullscreen picture if I'm not even allowed to donate it to a demo besides releasing it in the graphics compo.

Also, the reason to compete is to beat the best, nothing more nothing less. I do not wish to compete with "whatever was left over after the demos were put together", or any other subset of the best that the demoscene has to offer at any random party.

indeed. if the asset has enough quality to stand a chance on its own, then i fail to see how that's cheating. clearly the other competitors do too sucky graphics or music for demo usage and that's their problem ;)