scene music stolen
category: music [glöplog]
Nive words, keops, I agree. On the other hand, I do understand why demosceners support each other so much... even if ethically both sides steal, psychologically it does look different.
It's a David and Goliath story, that's why the mainstream media actually kinda picked up on it to begin with.
nah the OMG-Timbaland-is-all-evil drama is totally relevant. The guy ripped a whole tune for a ringtone and a MTV whore and got a fortune. 'sceners' who rip and use illegal software do it just for fun, no financial harm is actually made. Though morally should they give credits to whom they ripped.
at least all those who use some software and make money with it should buy the original, really!
on the game side (as in, no money income) I agree about the leech, test, and then delete coz it sucks -or- buy coz it rulez method.
on the game side (as in, no money income) I agree about the leech, test, and then delete coz it sucks -or- buy coz it rulez method.
Zest: again, you totally miss the point and you have such a naive vision of things. Stealing for fun is not any better than stealing for money. A software costs millions to develop. It's often a team of dozens people working for years. I fail to see where stealing the final product makes you any better than Timbaland.
OMG Timbaland is evil and wrong!
OMG you're all good, you have thousands dollars of pirated music/software/games on your PC but you only did it for fun, you swore!
However, you don't steal cars for fun just because it's harder, although equally wrong.
OMG Timbaland is evil and wrong!
OMG you're all good, you have thousands dollars of pirated music/software/games on your PC but you only did it for fun, you swore!
However, you don't steal cars for fun just because it's harder, although equally wrong.
Keops I have a hard time understanding your trolling actually. Logic simply does not allow these kind of arguments.
nah yours is the ideological vision, mine is pragmatic :p
as always if sceners were physically restrained from using an illegal photoshop (to go on with your example), they would use the gimp or a scene tool, this is not a real loss for adobe, it's rather a way to maintain adobe monopoly among creative people... so i do the difference between stealing for work (and money) which is very bad, and stealing for fun which is permissible by my standards.
Evil mentions the game case, which is different as games provide fun : if you play the game more than a hour without paying for it, you are stealing it, indeed. I do kinda agree with his leech-trial method and good games usually give 'demos' or public betas, the game i've enjoyed the most were the ones i've bought (Max Payne 2, BF2 and Bioshock). I've even bought Oblivion because the bold guys at Bethesda released it without any retail protection! :D
besides i do the difference between stealing an ind dev and stealing a big corp : for software diversity's sake should man support ind devs.
i feel like opening opened doors :>
as always if sceners were physically restrained from using an illegal photoshop (to go on with your example), they would use the gimp or a scene tool, this is not a real loss for adobe, it's rather a way to maintain adobe monopoly among creative people... so i do the difference between stealing for work (and money) which is very bad, and stealing for fun which is permissible by my standards.
Evil mentions the game case, which is different as games provide fun : if you play the game more than a hour without paying for it, you are stealing it, indeed. I do kinda agree with his leech-trial method and good games usually give 'demos' or public betas, the game i've enjoyed the most were the ones i've bought (Max Payne 2, BF2 and Bioshock). I've even bought Oblivion because the bold guys at Bethesda released it without any retail protection! :D
besides i do the difference between stealing an ind dev and stealing a big corp : for software diversity's sake should man support ind devs.
i feel like opening opened doors :>
stealing for fun obviously is far better than stealing for money.
Quote:
as always if sceners were physically restrained from using an illegal photoshop (to go on with your example), they would use the gimp or a scene tool, this is not a real loss for adobe
That, you don't know at all. If pirating softwares was not possible, some people would end up buying a product fitting their budget, overall sales would probably be bigger or there would be a broader choice of applications for different budgets. What you do "harmless and for fun" eventually makes the market what it is: expensive stuff bought or pirated, versus free stuff.
The same way a guy is fed up walking or commuting, he eventually buys a car, even though it's incredibly expensive. The only difference is that the coward can steal software without being caught hence feeling more righteous, which is wrong of course, the act is the same, it's stealing and not only for fun but to fulfill a need that could have been overcome another way. Fun has nothing to do with that. Ethic has everthing to do with that.
Quote:
stealing for fun which is permissible by my standards
I guess I'm done arguing with you then :)
Keep playing the drama queen snowwhite, calling Timbaland a thief while you steal intellectual properties and expensive products "for fun" :)
Way to go!
this thread should be named "whoever posts the last fucking subjective word on the morality of theft wins!"
oh btw... could we cut that "intellectual property" crap and all other music industry lingo such as "stealing" from this whole discussion please?
There is a difference, keops
YOU are accusing the whole demoscene of stealing (which is not only unproven, i can show you sceners who dont have illegal software)
The Demoscene only accuses Timbaland, and has proof for that.
but keep on trolling, this is pouet
YOU are accusing the whole demoscene of stealing (which is not only unproven, i can show you sceners who dont have illegal software)
The Demoscene only accuses Timbaland, and has proof for that.
but keep on trolling, this is pouet
it's difficult and unappropriate to compare real life with virtual life. Driving a car to work is real life. Using an adobe product at work is real life. Playing the last Steam game is still real life. Making a demo and showing it at a demoparty is not really real life anymore. The whole scene is like an alternative life, a TAZ particularity, a context where poverty or richness don't really matter, it's like a virtual yet tangible but temporary libertarian paradise, a safety valve against harsh economically-centric real life world. And i'm not utopian, i just witness :p
blahblahblah TAZ blahblahblah virtual blahblahblah libertarian blahblahblah paradise blahblahblah safety valve blahblahblah economic centric blahblahblah i'm so cool with my libertarian technobabble blahblahblah
No seriously, Zest, just keep it up, it's amazing how you actually seem to believe what you write. :)
I'm completely with Keops on his analysis of "market needs" and customers. But on the other hand, Timabaland DID sample something from Tempest. So Maybe you two share a bit of the actual truth. :)
No seriously, Zest, just keep it up, it's amazing how you actually seem to believe what you write. :)
I'm completely with Keops on his analysis of "market needs" and customers. But on the other hand, Timabaland DID sample something from Tempest. So Maybe you two share a bit of the actual truth. :)
Quote:
Playing the last Steam game is still real life. Making a demo and showing it at a demoparty is not really real life anymore. The whole scene is like an alternative life, a TAZ particularity, a context where poverty or richness don't really matter, it's like a virtual yet tangible but temporary libertarian paradise, a safety valve against harsh economically-centric real life world.
Woaaah!! Lay off the mushrooms man! I think you are blowing everything up quite a bit. The 'demoscene' is nothing more than a few blokes that like to drink beer and fiddle around a bit with computers. :D
okkie : "The 'demoscene' is nothing more than a few blokes that like to drink beer and fiddle around a bit with computers"
Best definition ever ! :))))
Best definition ever ! :))))
for lamers
If you want. Whatever. :)
hehe i play my provocative krabobish part, but i still like thinking our computer hobby as an exception :)
anyway the initial issue can't be more simple : Timbaland gets paid for ripping, sceners don't. Case closed :p
anyway the initial issue can't be more simple : Timbaland gets paid for ripping, sceners don't. Case closed :p
I second that. :) But deep down, Keops is right.
Keops:
I'm sure you are aware of the fact that the demoscene has its root in the cracking scene.
Piracy is hardly something new. Have you ever met a scener who had a legit copy of 3D Studio back in the old DOS days? How about Watcom or Borland compilers?
However these days there are enough free tools for demo making that make use of warezed apps unneeded. Blender3D and Wings3D are perfectly valid tools. I'm not really into music but there are tons of music apps (just don't expect to find a free clone of Reason or Pro-Tools) and, for the coders, several IDEs like code::blocks, Dev-Cpp, Emacs, Eclipse and so on. You could even go further and get rid of the MS OS too and install something like GNU/Linux or FreeBSD.
Most sceners don't/won't bother, but you can run your whole demomaking workflow with free apps, down to the operating system.
For what is worth, call a spade a spade, it's (C) infringement, not theft.
I'm sure you are aware of the fact that the demoscene has its root in the cracking scene.
Piracy is hardly something new. Have you ever met a scener who had a legit copy of 3D Studio back in the old DOS days? How about Watcom or Borland compilers?
However these days there are enough free tools for demo making that make use of warezed apps unneeded. Blender3D and Wings3D are perfectly valid tools. I'm not really into music but there are tons of music apps (just don't expect to find a free clone of Reason or Pro-Tools) and, for the coders, several IDEs like code::blocks, Dev-Cpp, Emacs, Eclipse and so on. You could even go further and get rid of the MS OS too and install something like GNU/Linux or FreeBSD.
Most sceners don't/won't bother, but you can run your whole demomaking workflow with free apps, down to the operating system.
For what is worth, call a spade a spade, it's (C) infringement, not theft.
kb: sorry for sticking to the topic, which is about "stolen" stuff
Captain Zed Yago: I don't have proof ? I am accusing the whole demoscene of stealing ?
It's not just an assumption. I have seen over 15 years that most sceners just don't have licences for the softwares they use. It was true on Atari and Amiga and it still is on PC. Most scene musicians / coders / graphic artists I know use pirated editing tools. It's not an assumption, it's a fact. But sure, you can find some having licences.
So indeed, I find it pretty funny to see those very same people showing up on that thread and shouting scandal and calling Timbaland a thief :)
Zest: there is nothing virtual here. Take UGA (United Games Artists) for example. They were working on Rez 2 till they realized that Rez did not sell well, which eventually made them cancel the project.
Strangely enough, A LOT of sceners and gamers knew, played and loved that game, yet it almost did not sell. This game was pirated bigtime by people claiming it was fun and harmless and eventually UGA did not finish the sequel because of budget issues.
The fact that Sega eventually gave up with the Dreamcast is nothing virtual either. One cause is Sony's sick marketing that eventually made people wait for the PS2's release. The other one is that a console manufacturer makes its money with the game sales, usually losing money on the console price itself.
The Dreamcast has been one of the most pirated consoles ever. I remember seeing FTP's and pirated Dreamcast games like I rarely did before. Eventually, the sales remained low and Sega gave up, not managing to get its hardware investment back. Sony was more lucky, thanks to their better marketing.
But yet, you are right, stealing for fun is ok and harmless, it's all virtual and cool.
Captain Zed Yago: I don't have proof ? I am accusing the whole demoscene of stealing ?
It's not just an assumption. I have seen over 15 years that most sceners just don't have licences for the softwares they use. It was true on Atari and Amiga and it still is on PC. Most scene musicians / coders / graphic artists I know use pirated editing tools. It's not an assumption, it's a fact. But sure, you can find some having licences.
So indeed, I find it pretty funny to see those very same people showing up on that thread and shouting scandal and calling Timbaland a thief :)
Zest: there is nothing virtual here. Take UGA (United Games Artists) for example. They were working on Rez 2 till they realized that Rez did not sell well, which eventually made them cancel the project.
Strangely enough, A LOT of sceners and gamers knew, played and loved that game, yet it almost did not sell. This game was pirated bigtime by people claiming it was fun and harmless and eventually UGA did not finish the sequel because of budget issues.
The fact that Sega eventually gave up with the Dreamcast is nothing virtual either. One cause is Sony's sick marketing that eventually made people wait for the PS2's release. The other one is that a console manufacturer makes its money with the game sales, usually losing money on the console price itself.
The Dreamcast has been one of the most pirated consoles ever. I remember seeing FTP's and pirated Dreamcast games like I rarely did before. Eventually, the sales remained low and Sega gave up, not managing to get its hardware investment back. Sony was more lucky, thanks to their better marketing.
But yet, you are right, stealing for fun is ok and harmless, it's all virtual and cool.
So yeah, I love being a whistleblower, and since at least one person involved cannot speak english properly, I'll be nice enough to translate what is currently going on about at modules.pl:
Case #34789562348756248756: DaXX&AM-FM vs MichU @ #milkytracker:
This is MichU's Short Chippie #1 made 22.08.2007.
This is DaXX&AM-FM's Stupid Beeps, made 26.08.2007.
If you kindly would like to enter your favorite tracker, and compare pattern #0 in MichU's tune and pattern #1 in DaXX's & AM-FM's tune, you'd notice that the entire composition of the arp, effects and their values included are copypasted.
Coincidence? I think not.
Thank you for listening. And yeah, MichU retains his law to say "lame" in their presence. ;)
Case #34789562348756248756: DaXX&AM-FM vs MichU @ #milkytracker:
This is MichU's Short Chippie #1 made 22.08.2007.
This is DaXX&AM-FM's Stupid Beeps, made 26.08.2007.
If you kindly would like to enter your favorite tracker, and compare pattern #0 in MichU's tune and pattern #1 in DaXX's & AM-FM's tune, you'd notice that the entire composition of the arp, effects and their values included are copypasted.
Coincidence? I think not.
Thank you for listening. And yeah, MichU retains his law to say "lame" in their presence. ;)
Piracy = CANCER !