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Although I personally don't mind the smoking and wanted to keep out of this discussion, I do have to contradict Doom's argument here because it's just plain stupid. The filthy environment at breakpoint won't kill you. You won't find cholera or other deadly viruses there. The worst thing that might happen is that you catch a cold. In fact, I've heard about scientific studies (too lazy to look 'm up right now) that even claim that a bit of dirt is not bad at all because it improves your resistance.

Long cancer on the other hand can be deadly though and you can get it from passive smoking, there is no doubt about that.

Also, people with asthma may not be able to visit breakpoint because of the smoking but that may also be the case for people with certain allergies. However, the smoking is easy to fix, getting rid of dirt on a party with hundreds of people is much more difficult.

you will get no lung cancer from visiting breakpoint one time a year.

True, but if everyone reasons like that smoking would be allowed always and everwhere. People do more than just visiting breakpoint.

But like I said, I personally don't mind and don't want to be drawn into this discussion, so I'll not say anymore about this :-)

I also think that this has something to do with tolerance. Things just have to stay within limits. Smokers should do their best not to annoy non-smokers. Moving your ass to a smoking area instead of smoking on your PC like you are used to is a big sign of good-will.

I think the way the smokers have behaved at this year's Breakpoint has indeed improved *a lot* compared to previous years. So now it's for the non-smokers to show tolerance.

And I think we should now change topic and talk about Breakpoint again...

I dunno how you're placed for this, scamp, but if we hear that the world's about to end in three days, can you put on a final Breakpoint really fast? I'd like to be dancing to The Prodigy on a beery wooden floor in the final hours.

Will try.

And how is this the problem of breakpoint organizing? I've seen plenty of parties that were beyond clean and seriously hazardous to your health even *without* the concept of smoking indoors. Asthma has always been a problem too -Scene Event was a hellhole for those people every goddamn year. In all years I attended the pollen was never a concern either.

A lot of the whiners were drunk (alcohol is not precisely a life extender) and standing in direct contact of the bonfire. That ought to worry them more -people burnt fucking plastic in those fires, which is on par with what people smoke for leisure.

disclaimer: this post is merely meant for the sake of illustration, not to argue any particular point.


I've been organizing easter parties for 7 years (since 2001). In those 7 years, I've got a serious infection (i.e. needing medical treatment, antibiotics to be precise) of one of my feet 3 times, spending one week after the party in a hospital in 2002. All 3 times it was from tiny scratches I got during pre-party construction (without even noticing) that got badly infected in the warm, humid and dirty atmosphere of the party hall.

I know this sounds incredibly stupid, but you usually don't even notice this kind of stuff till half of your foot (or leg) is swollen (yes, this happens pretty suddenly, when half a day before there were no visible wounds). Sobec (another BP orga) had the exact same thing this year.

I've also got asthma, but I've never had much of a problem with cigarette smoke at BP (or otherwise), even though some kinds of pollen are basically hell for me. Neither have I been diagnosed with lung cancer yet :)

Sparcus: You run a real risk of catching something pretty bad at a place like Breakpoint. It might not be one of those diseases that have been spread through parties in the past, but something as simple as an infection. Infections aren't good for you and are simply less likely to occur in a clean environment. Loud noises cause stress as well, and if you like obscure statistics, stress has been linked with cancer. Sleeping uncomfortably messes with your blood pressure and also causes stress. Etc.

No one cigarette ever killed anyone, which is why the studies are always statistical. It's all about what period and type of exposure may or may not increase the probability that this or that may happen to you sometime in the future, all depending (in pretty unpredictable ways) on a range of other lifestyle choices you are free to make.

That's no reason to ignore all the science of course. It's solid, not even vague, but it just can't be condensed like "potassium cyanide kills you dead so don't eat it". They try to dumb it down, of course, but that really only serves to reduce the anti-smoke movement to an oppressive fear-mongering campaign. Which I suppose is fine if you think there's such a thing as righteous fascism, but it doesn't leave any room for a question like "when have smokers been restricted enough?"

Breakpoint really does challenge your body, and that's not good for you. The filth won't kill you then and there, but neither will the passive smoking. Both risk reducing your general health, so the question is to what extent, respectively. That whole "it's probably not even measurable, but it's a bit scary, so let's just oppress to be on the safe side" doesn't work because people suffer from that oppression, so there has to be a good reason. And it has to be so convincing that it doesn't sound ridiculous from a guy who has just voluntarily killed part of his own brain with alcohol in order to have fun.

You know what ?

When we really discuss only about a few smokers in the hall,
and this is really everything you have to complain ...

... The Breakpoint team did a great job ...


I did a party in 1993 in Hannover after CeBit with only 700 Peoples ...
and for me it was a mess, really, there is so much to do wrong ... and the BP team did not do something wrong general ...


The discussion about smoking seems to become trendy everywhere.
But guys continue drinking coke, travel by car, buy furniture from ikea,
heat your rooms with oil ... this all hurts the nature much more than a few smokers ...

And : Iam a heavy smoker, and yes i might have smoked 1 or 2 Cigarettes at the mainhall while the demos / 64k´s have been shown, but mostly i went out to avoid stupid discussions.

i am bigitime offended that scamp did not ban motor vehicles from the BP parking lot! there's loads of scientific research that proves that car exhaust fumes are bad for your health, and statistics shows it increases the likelihood that i will get cancer by at least 0.00001% for every hour you were in the BP parking lot!!! and since i slept 11,5 hours in the last night of BP, that means i now have a 0.000115% increased chance on cancer! if i wasnt such a nice guy, i'd be sueing now!!!!1

if scamp is not willing to ban cars altogether, i expect cardrivers to show some politeness towards non-cardrivers by pushing their vehicles onto the BP parking lot, rather than driving them!!!!!111231

Doom,

i think we all got your point. How about a nice big cup of shut the fuck up now?

How do health and computers match anyway? Get over it.



After 4 years of demoparty absence BP07 was an outstanding experience for me. Bigtime! Thanks a lot to all the orgas and the crowd that was raving their butts off from dusk til dawn after the democompo. Priceless and absolutely unexpected for me. That was maybe the most positive vibe i have ever witnessed while spinning tracks for people.

BP2007, like any big party, is a challenge for your mind and body. i'm glad to say i survived it and came up with the following results:

* a 3D model + effect
* a background effect
* one effect converted from atari falcon asm to C+SDL (PC, GP2X)

-- mini party coding guide --

parties are the perfect opportunity for marathon coding!! the peer pressure makes it possible:
ever since i completed that big demo in the past and got a job i don't get off my ass unless i get paid for it. during the weekends and evenings i'd rather spend time on internet (for porn) and doing normal stuff like annoying family and friends and healthy shit like cycling.
to counter this problem it's good to take something feasible, however unchallenging it may seem, and work on it. examples: small intros, invitros, screens for a joint-venture prod. this will mostly cause better cooperation within the crew.
the trick is now simlpy to kick back and wait for the next party. take a few days off around that time.. and code hard.

anyway, also the right attitude is required with respect to work flow:
* work out and check for obvious things first: don't end up debugging 13 levels deep in your code. it's probably simpler to fix.
* take a break to scan the hall or outside every 2 hours or so. also check your fellow sceners for what they are making: who knows, you could get some inspiration here.
* enjoy the music.
* consume alcohol: preferably something light like beer to achieve and maintain a steady buzz.
* in case of sleep emergency: use energy drink or coffee
* do not sleep in sleeping rooms unless you have earplugs

I guess it was written here already, but a slight rearangement of the second stage wouldn't hurt. I was going several times from the bonfire into the main hall (or vice versa) or to the info desk and had to go directly through the crowd at the second stage. I actually don't have a problem with that, because body size and weight are on my side. But I guess not everyone liked that issue. (Maybe this could be solved by opening the emergency exit near the bonfire. A short tunnel could solve the temperature and noise issues, like it was done at Dialogos 99 (?).)

oh shit,

most importantly:

try to get a few hours per night of sleep at least!

rpfr: Some people apparently don't, so speak for yourself. It's not nice to see people ignoring all the other real hazards to focus on smoke just because that's what the hateful propaganda tells them to do. Especially not when all the hate is aimed at you.

All we want is for a few people to turn some of all their indifference towards their own health into tolerance or at least give up the double standards. It's not a big leap. It's even rational, sane and civilized. And I don't much care for the taste of shut the fuck up, so why don't you go spin some more tracks and you won't be able to hear me then. KTHX

earx: I don't think I agree with taking a few days off to code intensely being a good idea. I much prefer to have my stuff all done in good time. That way you can spend the party doing new stuff, so you can go home satisfied and inspired rather than tired of coding and not really pleased with your work.

what a nice party it was...

don't listen to that amiga siren, earx! just keep coding & eating mayonaise! :P

Great party. Thoroughly organized and friendly in almost every aspect. I'm a big time smoke allergic, but I survived my stay in the main hall so it can't have been that bad.

But there was one episode that took me by surprise and made me quite disappointed: some time after the compos I went to the infodesk for my votekey. The rather drunken guy behind the desk gave me two, while doing the "hush"-finger. I didn't know him, nor did I ask for two votekeys. Later on I also met a guy who bragged about being given five votekeys. For all I know this might be a common thing, but for me I think it reflects quite badly on the party.

Let it be noted that I am by no means complaining about the result here, and it may even be that we would have ranked lower than we did if the system hadn't been corrupt (I only used one key, though ;). But if there is one thing that you'd think the organizers would take seriously on such an otherwise flawlessly organized party, it's the voting.

So there is still room for improvement.

Doom,

since you seem to be one of those guys who take their dog out for a walk on sylvester at midnight i can only tell you that the simple solution is: letting it be.

It is unquestionable that demoparties are unhealthy in every single approach. Fat food, lack of sleep, loud noise, misbehaving people, much alcohol and whatnot. You knew it. You have choosen to come.

So what?

i forgot something else:

it was a really nice event. it was the biggest i ever visited (followed by siliconvention97 with "just" 250 visitors) and it was still very.. well.. cosy. i'll be back for next year unless i die or suddenly all my limbs fall off.

I am not responsible for that intro :D. And don't forget all the stuff I didn't release due to it not being finished. You will see. Next year, you will see. ;)

i want to say a big thankyou to all breakpoint-orgas!

only one suggestion (already pointed out, but still):
Please make the "announcements" hearable on the outside too (with announcement i mean stuff like "group XY please come with weird-hardware to the recording room")

i am looking forward for next bp

rpfr: I'm a cat person. But seems you did miss my point after all. I don't care about the conditions at Breakpoint. I just object when people care too much about one particular thing and start to get all irrational and hateful. I love how the unofficial BP motto seems to be "fuck the PC BS and let's all just be reasonable and try to get along". Especially cause BP makes that work like nothing I've ever seen.