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I haven't even seen the demo yet since all the hardware I have lying around is 2 broken gameboys, an iPod and 2 welded together Amiga 500's, but I already love this controversy! I really want to see it now, preferbly with comments by Shifter.. (hint)

This is Beatles vs Stones, Michael Jackson vs Prince, Oasis vs Blur, Keane vs Coldplay, Pharrell vs Timbo and Fiddy vs Cam'Ron.. make of that what you will..

AND THEY SHULD FUCOS ON RELLLESING KRWEKZEUUG4 INSTED OF MARKING POOPDEMROS WITH BLACKWITE!

(sorry, couldn't resist ;))

or

e) it is February, a season of inactivity, and people don't have anything better to do.

fuckings to all whiner.. thats it

<tatclass> YOU ALL SUCK DICK
<tatclass> er.
<tatclass> hi.
<andy\code> A common typo.
<tatclass> the keys are like right next to each other.

i'm not sure if i want to watch this one on my own computer. mostly because the experience of seeing it in the compo was such a last of emotions. and i know that my crappy laptop screen will never do justice for it's beauty. i do want to see it on a bigscreen some day again.

what has really made me sad in the last few years about the demoscene is that the productions which aim for artistic content instead technicality always get so much shit thrown at them. every year i have less and less motivation to produce anything for compos.and since the reception 'you need to listen' at bp05 i haven't spent more than a week for a single prod, cause it just ain't fucking worth it. that's why it means a lot to me to see that someone will use such huge amount of time and effort to create something so mind blowingly beautiful and touching.
i wish i myself could still believe that spending 9 months for a demo (or video) that follows my artistic vision is worth doing for the demoscene. i used to believe, but i've banged my head enough to a wall already.

i dont think it makes person any less if he does not like 828, but, i do think that, anyone who's saying that this is not what demos should be like(because demos can be fucking anything their maker wants 'em to be) or that people who only appreciate the artistic content(or only technical, or only their ascii descriptions or whatever) in demos should get out of scene is a fucking ignorant retard.


what i do wonder is that what kind of response this would've got if it had been released under some completely new label and not fr.


i give my greatest respect ever for visualice and ps for 828
(but the greatest demo of all times is still x14 ;) )

it's funny.

people ENJOY thumbing down all other groups prods on pouet everyday. but when it's from FRB, it's like people are "wondering why" and someone opens a subject just for that.

it's ridiculous.

"productions which aim for artistic content instead technicality always get so much shit thrown at them"

its a common mistake to believe that something which is
different automatically means its superiour art.
especially here the visual side is rather badly executed.
lack of time/support? i dont know and do we have to care?
i think not coz it doesnt makes it a better demo.

I thought the demo was awesome. No wonder people were in silence, it was superb ambience - completely attention grabbing and excellently executed.

Pow!

BuLL: just open a random pouet user profile and compare the number of thumbs in both directions. then make a restatement or enjoy intro-inferno where little ponies play on greenfields, everyone's happy etc.

Some people prefer groups that expertely reproduce effects seen in commercials in realtimes, or scan demotapes from design shops. Some others, maybe even the same scream when someone expertly puts together what lays deep inside of their head. Or something.

Some scan others and appear as if they changed colors. Of course they're going to have time for CRAFT!

Some scan themselves and appear as monochromatic, unbalanced, scarred. Of course!

nosfe: i don't think there is a limit on artistic expression in the scene. but i think there is a limit on boredom.

you can measure with scientific devices how much a demo does activate receptors and stimulates the brain. and the results correlate with what that person says: this was boring / this was exciting.

i believe that stealing other peoples time is only ok, if you make that time an entertaining time - competitions are not an event where you can force your impression of what's exciting for you down everyone elses throat.

YOU need to listen.

oh, regarding 055: less would have been more.

Says the man who participated in a dancing chicken demo ;) (then again, that was pretty entertaining..)

I think both Paniq and Nosfe are right in a way. The demoscene is a scene where artistic expression is unlimited, but also there is quite a consumer scene, especially at bigger parties.

Releasing a more artistic, different production at Breakpoint, where the compos burst with releases as it is, most of these releases shite, it will snow under or not be understood. Alas, that's how it is..

Oh, and if Chimera wasn't released by Halcyon.. would it make a sound? Stapling the FR monniker to this will bring out the 'OMG MAEK POPULARK DEMO 3 AND WRKZUEG 4 INSTED OF DIS P00P' retards only more, which is ofcourse fantastic :)

nosfe you cant seriously expect everyone to love such arty prods... if you want to delight the audience do a techno or dance or disco demo :p

i'm ok with both genres, i'm even more ok with flyby demos that show off ambience-making and modelization skills. But this genre always triggers many "boring crap" comments, and that's... just understandable ?

sorry, i'm not certain i get this thread... who's angry at who? is it the people who don't like 828 who are mad at people who do? or is it the people who do like it who are mad at the ones that don't?

I do think it would at least deserve to make a sound, but of course, I also love it that, for instance, what was probably the most controversial "art demo" (God that's a retarded term) of 2006 was done by the same guys who made Iconoclast and Planet Risk :)

Think I should make a few crowdpleaser hits now so I could really rile people up afterwards. I'm not even worried about the impact being lost by my statement of intent, since my comment is going to be buried in miles of Pouet within hours. Who's with me?

Oh do it jobe! The idea of you making a crowdpleasing demo turns into a crazy digital orgy in my head (and that's a good thing! :D)

When it comes to design versus technical superiority, I so agree with nosfe.

I don't even like 828, but I can't stand all this bullcrap about artsy stuff not being what scene is supposed to be. I've never seen anyone complaining that joke prods are somehow anti-sceneish and yet they represent the same "design over technology"-philosophy with "art demos".

I guess one of the main problems "design haters" (another retarded term) have with 828 is the huge amount of effort used. Usually experimental art demos look like they are made in rush and it's ok for design haters. But when someone uses lots of time and effort to make demo like 828, it's somehow wrong because that person used his precious time reserved for demoscene purposes for something that is not "common good", or in other words "normal demo".

At least for me demos like 828 don't really work at parties, as I'm usually not in the right mood during the compos to appreciate some slow stuff that goes on way too long. It's a bit like watching 30min long scrollerdemos in a c64-democompo, total boredom. Then again, I might really enjoy these kinds of demos at home, when I'm in the right mood and thus easier to entertain.

And then a comment about "art-demos", it's a shame that most artsy demos are let down by poor visual execution (not necessarily talking about 828 here), which really distracts at least me from enjoying the message or mood the demo might want to create.

Effort doesn't count, and you should know that - just look at House, the guy probably busted a nut to deliver the thing because he doesn't know much about demomaking and he had to go through all the pitfalls, but regardless, he probably laid a LOT of effort in, resulting, as of the time of this post, in a -0.4 ratio. So think again, does effort REALLY count?

My personal gripe with 828 is that it went way under my expectations TECHNICALLY. Visualice has been doing demos for bloody ages now, I personally expect him to avoid near plane clipping and inverting green to purple.

The demo itself is an artistic masterpiece, but for me it's sadly overshadowed by amateurish technical mistakes which weren't present in Liquid Wen or even Faded Memories. I will present it at demoshows, and I will like it a lot afterwards, but it's not the "best demo ever" as I was told before I saw it.


Boredom, however, is an entirely subjective and perception-dependent factor. Sure, you can measure it, but taking an average of, say, 100 sceners and stating that a demo is boring just because it goes under a threshold wouldn't be fair. At least that's not my idea of a scene-like community.

britelite: for me it seems to be the complete opposite.. no matter how massively plastered i am during a democompo (and shout shit at mediocre demos or jokeprods) i tend to fall silent and just watch when something 'artsy' is shown, but when i'm at home i usually don't have the attention span for it :-)

That doesn't really count, because no matter how that guy would have used his precious time, the result was doomed to be crap in eyes of everyone. He didn't make choice between doing crowdpleaser and doing something he and possibly only he enjoys.

i used to hate everythiing what nosfe made, but then i started to check them when i had faster connection. i started to look outside "the box" not just demoscene productions and i understood that there is whole world out there who is making a lot of better stuff than squirrel and robot in same picture. woopty-fucking-do. demoscene still got place for artistic stuff and then effects masturbation imo. but id rather go to first one.. artistic stuff.. weird head fukk stuff .. experimental stuff that mfx makes.. stuff that is not 300000 polys fastest 3d engine crap. if its different its not superior in art.. people should no go like WOHOO this crappy demo with no good objects is not good demo when it doesnt evoke me effect masturbation need.. we have different tastes , some people like to look original directed stuff, some likes to look high-tech stuff, some cheesy stuff, some likes to masturbate on rasters ... we should all tolerate our tastes... ok ?

and people of course can like both stuff.. artistic masturbation and effect masturbation for example shitfaced clowns stuff ;)

Oh, I think he did...