Deadline 2021: Re-United | October, 8th - 10th | Berlin, Germany
category: residue [glöplog]
I'm actively looking into my options to go... Quite decent fares also.. Now I only need someone to look after my kids.
I am happy to go to Deadline again. Been to long without seeing my friends in Berlin.
I'm totally fine with a "vaccinated only" approach.
And I hate conspiracy theories (But not CNS - love you guys :-) )
I'm totally fine with a "vaccinated only" approach.
And I hate conspiracy theories (But not CNS - love you guys :-) )
Leaving my two cents here: WHAT SCAMP SAID!
God damn.
God damn.
Krill I thought you were cool 😭😭😭
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Thanks! As long as you do not lump me in with the deniers/conspiracy camp, i might just be able to live with that. =)Krill I thought you were cool 😭😭😭
Anyways, wishing good luck and good fun to everybody organising or attending the party!
I guess after this fiasco we can wholeheartedly extend the good old 'do not feed the trolls' rule to include vaccination/COVID/climate deniers. Any engagement with these people in these areas serves their purpose of seeding doubt and does a disservice to everyone who follows the science about these topics.
Speaking of: there is a broad general consensus in the scientific community that vaccinations work and safe lives. The WHO urges everyone to get their jab by noting: "It is important to be vaccinated as soon as possible once it’s your turn and not wait.". I'd commend you to read their pages on COVID and reflect if in doubt.
Which bring me to my last point: it's nothing but sensible for an indoor event with a high risk profile to come with some kind of mitigation strategy. Requiring people to be vaccinated at Deadline is the only way to ensure that a (not at all unlikely) super spreader event won't result in people dying before their time. I'd hope the role of aerosol transmission with COVID is something we all have internalized throughout the last 1.5 years.
I for once can tell you only one thing: I wouldn't even consider mingling with other sceners at an indoor party without at least this one precaution. And I don't know but I'd strongly suspect that most prospective visitors should feel much more confident about attending when it's clear that sensible precautions are put in place to improve everyone's safety.
Speaking of: there is a broad general consensus in the scientific community that vaccinations work and safe lives. The WHO urges everyone to get their jab by noting: "It is important to be vaccinated as soon as possible once it’s your turn and not wait.". I'd commend you to read their pages on COVID and reflect if in doubt.
Which bring me to my last point: it's nothing but sensible for an indoor event with a high risk profile to come with some kind of mitigation strategy. Requiring people to be vaccinated at Deadline is the only way to ensure that a (not at all unlikely) super spreader event won't result in people dying before their time. I'd hope the role of aerosol transmission with COVID is something we all have internalized throughout the last 1.5 years.
I for once can tell you only one thing: I wouldn't even consider mingling with other sceners at an indoor party without at least this one precaution. And I don't know but I'd strongly suspect that most prospective visitors should feel much more confident about attending when it's clear that sensible precautions are put in place to improve everyone's safety.
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I guess after this fiasco we can wholeheartedly extend the good old 'do not feed the trolls' rule to include vaccination/COVID/climate deniers.
I don't remember anyone in this thread denying the efficacy of vaccinations, the existence of covid or of climate change?
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Requiring people to be vaccinated at Deadline is the only way to ensure that a (not at all unlikely) super spreader event won't result in people dying before their time
You're not ensuring anything with that, you merely reduce the odds whereas you increase the odds of people spreading the virus (eventually to non vaccinated people) by disregarding testing altogether.
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Oh but you are:You're not ensuring anything with that
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That means all orgas (and hopefully also the visitors) can sleep well at night
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I don't remember anyone in this thread denying the efficacy of vaccinations, the existence of covid or of climate change?
Why are we having a multi-pages long discussion again when everyone agrees to the safety and effectiveness of vaccinations? This extends without loss of generality to all these types who'd like to spread their opinion as more credible than the mainstream consensus of the scientific community. There's no gain for anyone but them by endlessly iterating on these matters.
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You're not ensuring anything with that, you merely reduce the odds whereas you increase the odds of people spreading the virus (eventually to non vaccinated people) by disregarding testing altogether.
You're right, I was imprecise there. You may want to replace 'only' with 'best' in my posting :)
And the best way to not spread the virus is by not getting infected in the first place. Vaccinations help doing that. They also tremendously reduce the odds of anyone dying.
Apart from that I'd sure love to see a testing concept for Deadline to further mitigate the risks. Underground Conference 11 worked out a pretty good strategy for that in my opinion.
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I guess after this fiasco we can wholeheartedly extend the good old 'do not feed the trolls' rule to include vaccination/COVID/climate deniers. Any engagement with these people in these areas serves their purpose of seeding doubt and does a disservice to everyone who follows the science about these topics.
Yeah, pretty much this.
I wonder how many more days people are going to repeat themselves on this thread
havoc: but this thread needs a booster shot of the same arguments again and again!
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Why are we having a multi-pages long discussion again when everyone agrees to the safety and effectiveness of vaccinations?
Because it's also "mainstream consensus of the scientific community" that it's not recommended to get vaccinated when pregnant(at least in germany, the country where this party takes place), there's individuals whose risk assessment through a professional is in favor of not vaccinating and finally efficacy of vaccination is severely reduced in immunocompromised people. Those people (except for the pregnant ones) may very well be excluded from society for ever if it goes by this undifferentiated thinking.
I don't think that vaccination-only is a solid safety concept because if you don't test you may still spread the virus, and you may still kill someone, maybe not on the first hop, maybe not on the second, but again... a vaccinated person can contract the virus and they can be infectious(even more so with delta variant for all that we know right now) and there are people who for whatever reason are and may always be vulnerable.
That's why, well and because there's people wholeheartedly calling for forced vaccination which would violate the basic right of bodily integrity.
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I wonder how many more days people are going to repeat themselves on this thread
As many as it takes
As many as it takes to achieve what exactly?
So we'll require vaccination and also require testing. Done?
I mean, I understand your argument, no need to repeat that. But srsly, what do you hope to achieve by arguing this?
establishing some juris prudentia in these highly erratic times is unlikely anyway
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As many as it takes to achieve what exactly?
Until I stop reading or hearing things like "Get vaccinated or fuck off"
Until not everyone saying anything that even only appears to be remotely critical immediately gets pitchforked out of the scene.
Until the people who plead to "get vaccinated to protect ye other" stop denying the existence of the exact people they call to protect.
Until companionship in the scene is back to not being based on having a sticker in some cardboard booklet or a QR code on the phone.
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there's individuals whose risk assessment through a professional is in favor of not vaccinating and finally efficacy of vaccination is severely reduced in immunocompromised people
How many of those are we talking about in the scene?
Cos I mean, I dunno about you but if I had a medical reason not to take the vaccine, I'd still advocate for a safer party even if I know I'd be excluded.
I wonder if the site layout will be anything like 2019 and earlier, when the point of admission was the entrance to the party hall, and the outside area wasn't cordoned off. ORWO-Haus premises other than the party's inside space were used by non-party-related people throughout the duration, so anybody was free to roam about outside, including the bonfire area.
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Until companionship in the scene is back to not being based on having a sticker in some cardboard booklet or a QR code on the phone.
Sorry to day but I'm not sure your personal preferences matter much in the face of a deadly disease that affects everyone so severely. We will have to deal with COVID for a long time and it's up to demo party organizers to set the ground rules as they see fit.
You might be delighted to know though that there are parties that may not require masks or certificates at all. Check them out.
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So we'll require vaccination and also require testing.
If this was really about safety and according to what we know at this point in time, yes.
Primarily reduce risk of any of the attendees dying -> vaccination
Primarily reduce risk of spreading the virus -> test
That's the way I see it, and I suggested at the very end of my initial post, and yes both of these secondarily also reduce the other.
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How many of those are we talking about in the scene?
I'd think low double digits, but how many black people does it need for discrimination to become a problem?
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Quote:How many of those are we talking about in the scene?
I'd think low double digits, but how many black people does it need for discrimination to become a problem?
Why do you think black people are a health hazard?
lol, that's certainly not what I was trying to imply.
So you think people who should not be vaccinated or have reduced efficacy yet test negative should be excluded from demo-scene events for ever?
So you think people who should not be vaccinated or have reduced efficacy yet test negative should be excluded from demo-scene events for ever?
That's extrapolating what I said a bit.
What I'm saying is, if I'd be in that group and I'd be excluded, I'd understand as a service for the good of the community, because it's not JUST about me. There's other parties, and there's time.
What I'm saying is, if I'd be in that group and I'd be excluded, I'd understand as a service for the good of the community, because it's not JUST about me. There's other parties, and there's time.