pouët.net

people are gonna start reading infofiles before downloading again? :D

no, they read pouet comments and thumb it down without downloading. or go to youtube instead.

Well, you're right. Anyway, talking about FR's demotunes, ask the ordinary listener - everybody likes V2 tunes as much as MP3s. Averange listener do not care how the tunes were made (MP3, V2 synth), because they sounds almost the same. Only Kb can see the difference :) So, back to the Plastic's demotune, it's not a size limitation, but the music style limitation (such tune can't be packed in a small size)... I mean, if you already did a huge file (music, picture, 3d model, texture), you probably couldn't pack it in a cheap size. But if you keep a size limit in mind from the very beginning, you can do... may be something different, but not less impressive. Farbrausch gives a good examples.
So, only one thing I afraid is video-based demos. 64Mb size, you know...

A couple of things from a musicians point of view:

1. To the idiot who stated that he didn't want 320kbps mp3 in a demo:
Compression degrades the sound, and as a musician it's hard to accept that the bitrate has to come down to make room for another 3D-model or some higher quality textures.
After everything from 50 to 100+ hours' work on a track, it's really bitter to hear the boom of the bass weakened and the clarity of my hihats and cymbals fade away. And for what? The track doesn't get any more "realtime" or "demoscene" with lower filesize, it's still just an audio stream. Lower filesize limits means poorer audio quality, and nothing else.

2. The tracked music scene did not die because of raised filesize limits. It died because better tools arrived for musicians. If trackers still were the preferred choice for musicians, the tracking scene would be as alive today as it was ten years ago.
So indeed it is no reason for tracked music competitions anymore, as trackers are no longer relevant for the demoscene in general except as a part of demoscene history. (And no, that some musicians still use trackers by choice does not prove relevance for the scene as a whole, every man chooses the tool he himself finds best for his task.)

Oh and please: a 64mb file limit does not mean that everyone will quit coding and release xvid-players with animations. And I think ASD have proved pretty clearly that using video in demos can be as innovative as anything else.

Every BP submission should fit on a single floppy disk, period :)

High Density allowed

(Just realized that I previously posted that in the wrong BP thread because I am a cretin)

Perhaps the time has come for scene.org or similar to stop storing everything that has ever been created in the demoscene and let the groups that made them have the responsibility. I understand that history is important for some people, but personally I don't care that much if anyone won't ever see my productions from 1995 no more..

If scene.org would come forward and face the future, maybe a coop with pouet.net to create a tracker instead, where each group would be responsible to seed their own works, and perhaps by some automated server system (so that users don't need to keep the torrents alive), we could still have access to our history in the future.

Because the filesizes WILL grow, and the amount of releases coming will mean there are no way scene.org is going to be able to keep a perfect copy, and they don't even have half of it yet.

But really, how many of you NEW sceners go in and download everyting made in 1995 and run it? Na, you select what's best of that year (with the help of pouet for instance, or scene.org viewing tips) and download the video of it, or buys a demo dvd. Or why not youtube.

In any case, dissing breakpoint for allowing 64MB in the compo? Comean, give them a rest. I'll give them my applause for submitting to the reality.

Cheers.

Quite frankly the scene is so small right now, there's no way scene.org will get swamped. We'll talk about selection and crappy torrents when the scene will be as big as pop music is. And I'm pretty sure I'll have stopped following it by then.

Because if there's one thing I like about the scene, is that demos are expensive to make. Though not as expensive as operas.

i dont have a problem with 64MB demos (compared to current ~20MB ones), if it helps to load times - i want demos to start instantly

Word. Enough with those boring demos/intros that require more than a few seconds to get started

pre-pre-calc

thec: scene.org is really offtopic in this thread - besides, it's a tradition that scene.org servers break down each year 4 weeks before Breakpoint starts and come back up a few weeks after that, which is why the official Breakpoint archive is at untergrund.net instead after all ;)

And the demo sizes don't matter for archives anyway really. What really eats storage are the video captures of all demos (including C64 and Amiga ones), plus the videos from seminars, events etc - but still, the complete Breakpoint release archive only weights about 30GB - so this is a non-issue. Hard disk sizes drop faster than scene release sizes raise.

scamp: so what the f*ck are people complaining about then? good work from your side. oldschoolers stuck in reverse can stay there.

thec: the essence is that some demosceners expect tight, systempushing demos rather than filespace-hoggy ones :) then again, you couldve read that :P

I can understand especially the oldskool people complaining. I'm also more impressed by hardware/size/whatever-limitations and people pushing them, but maybe we need to leave that to the 64k/whatever-entries...
Scamp may right about the videos. I basically do a nicely-sorted dump of the bp-ftp every year and the size keeps on doubling...

This is the same thread year by year. We get bigger size limits every year, as faster computers, more disk space, faster internet connection; thats all.

If you want a size limit, there are intro compos. If not, use the demo compo.

Why to discuss this more?

Because everybody has his 50ct to contribute to the fruitless discussion maybe ;)

That's what we get with a too low initial price of entry for comments. If they cost something like 100€ maybe we'd do better contributions.

somewhat unrelated comment, but that reminds me of some discussions with people (especially musicians) who got really pissed that they didn't get their submission disks back after the compos. i always thought "wow, if your entry isn't even worth the price of a single floppy to you, why do you submit it at all?"

ryg: that's because people want their work to remain unreleased if it's not selected by the jury. If you still have their entry on disk, they fear that it's going to be released anyway, although it wasn't in the compo - or is that just me? ;)

yes, youtube is a nice resource if you on another plattform or dont have the need hardware requirements.

As Rodney put it in Skate or Die..: Quit yer yakkin' and go compete! :)

Youtube videos of demos suck, really. I've never seen any demo on you tube up till now that doesn't give you eyecancer. If the video quality was better it would be a nice platform though...

About video, i wondered, is there even a single computer than can decompress divx at 1280*1024 in realtime?

This size limit (64MB) appeals to me however because it's 1024 times bigger than an intro. That's a bit of a too huge gap IMO. What about trying out other categories, like, 512kb demo, 4mb, ...

rarefluid, your remarks are really moronish, have you ever even made a demo by yourself?

"quality" == video quality != demo quality