Its time for a .Werkkzeug category!
category: general [glöplog]
I think it is rather hard to find clear arguments why to treat demotool-demos different than "normal" demos.
Why? After all, in most cases the one who writes the code is not the one who creates the visuals using the tool. So, barely anyone is using "one's own tool". And have a look at fr-034. As far as I understand it, this is basically a prod created by Haujobb with a demotool created by Farbrausch. Yes, I know that Visualice belongs to Farbrausch now, and I suppose that Visualice and Chaos knew each other and so on, but so what? By my definition, all demos created using a tool, are simply a collaboration of one group's coders and another group's artists. The only difference to "conventional" demomaking is that they never met each other before. But if the tool creator decides to release it, so what? The amount of work the coder puts into the tool is unaffected by whoever uses it, and the artist's work is still of the same type, as if he knew the coder personally.
Why? After all, in most cases the one who writes the code is not the one who creates the visuals using the tool. So, barely anyone is using "one's own tool". And have a look at fr-034. As far as I understand it, this is basically a prod created by Haujobb with a demotool created by Farbrausch. Yes, I know that Visualice belongs to Farbrausch now, and I suppose that Visualice and Chaos knew each other and so on, but so what? By my definition, all demos created using a tool, are simply a collaboration of one group's coders and another group's artists. The only difference to "conventional" demomaking is that they never met each other before. But if the tool creator decides to release it, so what? The amount of work the coder puts into the tool is unaffected by whoever uses it, and the artist's work is still of the same type, as if he knew the coder personally.
@mjz that is the point, the coder is every time a part of a group when someone use his demotool.
STELTHZ: fuck you. put demotool category into your ass...
I've ignored this thread for some time because it makes no sense, but something should be said... once again:
the products I respect, but the demogroup? No, I respect the n00b with a spinning cube more!
"I've an idea: We can't code very well, but let's invent the wheel for a 2^49+1 time. People will love us for our bad coding more as for our good style-skillz we'd have by using a demotool."
Some of you might not've noticed that you still need creativity for making good demos with demotools, that's why this "new" category "demo made with demotool" is useless and stupid.
that is the point, the coder is every time a part of a group when someone use his demotool.
"Hey, see, Microsoft is in my demogroup." - "In mine, too." - "Same for me." - ...
the products I respect, but the demogroup? No, I respect the n00b with a spinning cube more!
"I've an idea: We can't code very well, but let's invent the wheel for a 2^49+1 time. People will love us for our bad coding more as for our good style-skillz we'd have by using a demotool."
Some of you might not've noticed that you still need creativity for making good demos with demotools, that's why this "new" category "demo made with demotool" is useless and stupid.
that is the point, the coder is every time a part of a group when someone use his demotool.
"Hey, see, Microsoft is in my demogroup." - "In mine, too." - "Same for me." - ...
this thread is so bloody pointless it hurts..
yeah it's about time someone enlightens this thread with a nice david hasselhoff image
havoc: agreed
This argument will go round and round and round and eventually delete itself. Why? Because Werkzeug is great, but it's limited. That's why .fr are currently on, what, version 3 of the tool and we're still doing spinning cubes in version 1 (spinning cubes with little labels that say ".hund", mind you).
You might be able to make some great demos with it for now, but in 2 months when the handcoded demos move beyond it there'll be no point. Calm down demoscene, the skybox is not falling. ;)
You might be able to make some great demos with it for now, but in 2 months when the handcoded demos move beyond it there'll be no point. Calm down demoscene, the skybox is not falling. ;)
Okkie: that is SO farging wrong, that isn't Uncle Jesse, Uncle Jesse was on Dukes of Hazzard, that's some lame fuckwit from some lameass show with those horrible internet pr0n twins. Sheesh.
Oh, and on topic:
BASS.
Oh, and on topic:
BASS.
I've heard that you CAN NOT import your own effects into Werkkzeug. That's unacceptable.
That's, IMHO, the defining factor between a "realtime animation tool" and a "demo tool". Therefore I see .Werkkzeug demos pretty much the same as Flash demos.
On the other hand, .Werkkzeug was made for 64k intros, so .DLL imported effects are somewhat out of the question.
I hope Demopaja can still support imported effects?
That's, IMHO, the defining factor between a "realtime animation tool" and a "demo tool". Therefore I see .Werkkzeug demos pretty much the same as Flash demos.
On the other hand, .Werkkzeug was made for 64k intros, so .DLL imported effects are somewhat out of the question.
I hope Demopaja can still support imported effects?
I agree with truch here. BASS.
I wonder why some people are so picky about categories... to me it's just a way to know if I am going to download a small file or a huge one.
Oh yeah... probably those people still believe in charts (!wow!) and go like: "hey, that fucked up shit done with demopaja has more thumbs than my handcoded pure-asm cube with different coder-colored plasmas on each face".
Oh yeah... probably those people still believe in charts (!wow!) and go like: "hey, that fucked up shit done with demopaja has more thumbs than my handcoded pure-asm cube with different coder-colored plasmas on each face".
Quote:
I've heard that you CAN NOT import your own effects into Werkkzeug. That's unacceptable.
OMG THAT'S TERRIBLE BURN WERKZEUG. A far stretch, but does that mean that Buzz is a demotool and Fasttracker 2 less so?
Anyway, concerning your own effects or whatnot: Paja does support self-made plugins, but most coders throw heavy machinery at you at the mere suggestion of understanding the (apparently) horrible plugin system.
coders throw heavy machinery at you at the mere suggestion of understanding the (apparently) horrible plugin system
... and if you ever tried you know why :))
thing is that werkkzeug DOES support custom effects, just not natively. if you read the tutorial you know there are ways to add your own thingies, you just need to contact the guys with your wishes and if it's cool enough they'll help :)
thing is that demotools take away as much as the give most of the time; werkkzeug might be a nice tool to design and compose but it's a bitch when it comes to syncing and animation. same goes for paja - only with easy design and syncing as a pro and overall limitations as a con.
paja has been around for almost four years now. not many people used it, some made good stuff, some made bad.
same thing will happen to werkkzeug eventually. some people will use it, make good stuff, make bad stuff, then the "hype" (if there's any) will slowly die out and people will settle with simply "making demos".
... and if you ever tried you know why :))
thing is that werkkzeug DOES support custom effects, just not natively. if you read the tutorial you know there are ways to add your own thingies, you just need to contact the guys with your wishes and if it's cool enough they'll help :)
thing is that demotools take away as much as the give most of the time; werkkzeug might be a nice tool to design and compose but it's a bitch when it comes to syncing and animation. same goes for paja - only with easy design and syncing as a pro and overall limitations as a con.
paja has been around for almost four years now. not many people used it, some made good stuff, some made bad.
same thing will happen to werkkzeug eventually. some people will use it, make good stuff, make bad stuff, then the "hype" (if there's any) will slowly die out and people will settle with simply "making demos".
I agree to Gagaj, i think werkkzeug is for the most people who use it the first step to make something own.
After some time the most of them give it up, and some of them will make more.
Those people who will make more is it not enough to build demos with the tool and they will try to code something own or they will join to a group with a coder where they can realice more...
After some time the most of them give it up, and some of them will make more.
Those people who will make more is it not enough to build demos with the tool and they will try to code something own or they will join to a group with a coder where they can realice more...
OMG....Bill Gates is in my demogroup :(
This is bollox. Some zealots simply cannot fathom that the face of the scene has changed.
I still have a deep respect of people who knows how to write proper coe, but proper code is not equalent to a good demo par se.
The designers have more and more taken over the demoscene. Some coders are good designers no doubt. But with these tools everybody can have a go at making a demo.
And in all honesty. Some of them are quit good. And werkzeug is not the only wikkid demotool anymore.
I think it is good that people start releasing their tools. I bet it must be satisfying for the coder of the tool when people start to inovate, as they get to know the tools better. Like "How the hell didi he pull that off???"
This is bollox. Some zealots simply cannot fathom that the face of the scene has changed.
I still have a deep respect of people who knows how to write proper coe, but proper code is not equalent to a good demo par se.
The designers have more and more taken over the demoscene. Some coders are good designers no doubt. But with these tools everybody can have a go at making a demo.
And in all honesty. Some of them are quit good. And werkzeug is not the only wikkid demotool anymore.
I think it is good that people start releasing their tools. I bet it must be satisfying for the coder of the tool when people start to inovate, as they get to know the tools better. Like "How the hell didi he pull that off???"
Stealthz. point taken. To de bwoys with the tool. That there is spamming pouet. Tool or no tool atleast put some bloody effort into it. *rage*
hey, six .werkkzeug prods are MUCH less (and thus less bad) than the newer Rzr or S!P prods, so what :)
Kb check out the links mate.
i bet it was Stelthz who has fast umm.. fasttooled all this productions in a short time :D
Stealthz you piece of crap. Spamming pouet net database with ill made productions to prove you point is plane lame. All the WZ demo there has been added by you, and they all stink.
You dont like demomaking tools? Well to bad, grow up and start to judge by quality rather than the works behind it.
But to do this, is the work of an upset 5 yers old, that didnt have his ways.
What point where you trying to put forth? that anyone can make 8 sucky demos a day with this tool? Well that nice, good point blabber brain. Farbrausch made demo that has turned into calssics with it. So like it or not, its not the tool that is the problem.
And as people have said. Some will use it, most wont. Some will turn out great, most wont. But i for one wouldnt wanna miss the good ones, knowing what the tool is capable of. So stop your crusade, and get on with your apparently miserable life, bitch!
You dont like demomaking tools? Well to bad, grow up and start to judge by quality rather than the works behind it.
But to do this, is the work of an upset 5 yers old, that didnt have his ways.
What point where you trying to put forth? that anyone can make 8 sucky demos a day with this tool? Well that nice, good point blabber brain. Farbrausch made demo that has turned into calssics with it. So like it or not, its not the tool that is the problem.
And as people have said. Some will use it, most wont. Some will turn out great, most wont. But i for one wouldnt wanna miss the good ones, knowing what the tool is capable of. So stop your crusade, and get on with your apparently miserable life, bitch!
Man this insomnia has started to make me picky.
Stealthz. remove the personal insults from the text, and then read the message.
Incredible, i dont even give a fork. Make wahtever categories you like.
Stealthz. remove the personal insults from the text, and then read the message.
Incredible, i dont even give a fork. Make wahtever categories you like.