pouët.net

so why dont you guys start an official 'come to demozone xor uc' thread instead of using the breakpoint one?

havoc: Honestly I don't know much about dutch parties - the last one I visited was Ambience, and I wouldn't visit that again. Outline for me until now was connected to "atari only". Probably all the positive feedback about it will make more non-atari guys go there in the future.

In general I think: If you already have lots of parties with high standards in your own country, parties outside your country need to be VERY attractive to make you go there.

And regarding Atari and Breakpoint - yeah, let's talk about that (at Evoke, for example). We'd simply need some Atari scener to join the orga team and take care.

kb: Instead of telling you a lot of similar horror stories about how amiga sceners used to deal with pc sceners I'll just invite you to come to Outline next year to find out that Atari sceners are actually very nice and relaxed people and not that different from the rest of us :-)

sparcus: atari sceners you mean :P amiga sceners are just drunk poles :P

maali: note the past tense :-)

it's funny that people gather in groups related to hardware rather than artistic preferences. we've witnessed so many interesting breakthroughs in style, specially during the mid-90's that i wonder that there is no organized groups and meetings concerning artistic directions.

but then again, in portugal we also have the problem that amiga sceners never come to inerciademoparty (they obviously forget to come...) so i understand a bit that some hostilities can arise. BUT: we were never rude to them, or they to us. that's because a) all is full of love and b) the scene is dead anyway (was there a scene in portugal? wtf?!!one)

when i look at people's faces during breakpoint, i see passionate nerds that don't realize that they have more in common than they think, and it's such a pity that those small differences get out of a sudden more important.

hardware? fuck hardware anyway. what counts is what is in your soul. scene spirit forever!

OMG, guys stop whining!
TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP! BIN BUSY GEH WEG! THE ATARI SCENE WAS CHEERING! GET THE FACTS!
PERFORMANCE PER WATT!

Oh get off it already. High standards? Clearly you've never been to a *real* high quality demoparty :) German demoparties are basically defined by:

a. Cramped quarters. Seriously, you'd stack people ON TOP of people if you could justify it somehow.
b. Shitty food
c. Constant struggles before & after with whatever underdog platform is out of fashion that year.
d. Ha ha, yes funny. Stop your C64 jokes already.

Cruel truth, how I love thee :)

Saving grace? You're smack bang in the middle of europe. What Utrecht is to the Netherlands, you guys are to Europe. There's your appeal, right there. Former eastern bloc nations don't have to empty their wallet too much, nor do your fellow countrymen... Seriously, the way germans continue to whine about how they have to travel all the way from Munich/Kiel/Shithole to Bingen and how "expensive" that is... Clearly they don't get out of the country that much, but that is not due to the quality of 'your" parties.

My advice? Try any spanish, portuguese or atari party. They have leading.

Also, Madenmann is a kitten.

Incoming message for shifter: Scamp is not speaking for the German scene, you don't need to bash the rest of us.

shifter you sound like you've never been to a german demoparty, least of all at evoke =)

and also when it comes to compos, how come the most quality compos of the past years were either in germany or in finland?

I remember Evoke pretty well, especially while having cocktails in the pool at PMP. Elbow room, Dip. It's what seperates default german parties from any other nation :)

As for your nation-entrenched reference point for "quality", good or bad releases don't make a party any worse or better. Take good old TP'95: a sodomy conga line for the visitors, but a godsent when you look at the releases (not including the many releases that never saw a compo, but I digress).

Also, I really enjoyed seeing you at Outline ;)

Just something to compare with your über-cramped party - this is how we play at Solskogen:



solskogen.demoscene.no - seriously, why NOT come? :)

Indeed, with Scene Event out of the way, the germans should just suck it up and go to Solskogen.

though gloom, let's stop kidding ourselves: save for FR hiding out in a log cabin on the danish plains, no germans dare cross the border.

yeah, they do seem sensitive about that "border"-thing. :)

we also fucked up voting on ambience 2000 and 2001, and were on several takeovers and woest 2002.

plus we have several regular the party and assembly visitors (in fact, there were several BP orgas at asm05).

in general, we prefer north and west.

i prefer north and east. :)

anyway, shifter, it's not like evoke 2003 was that typical. in 2002, 2004 and 2005 there was enough space, and also in 1999 and 2000 (okay in 1998 it was REALLY packed). but if there are too many people at the party, it's always a good sign. =) what can be more horrible (especially for the orgnanizers) if you have a 400people hall with 50 people in it? this year there will be space for everyone, i'm pretty sure. and all kinds of various food at the partyplace and the surroundings.

dip: since you insist on defending Evoke, I'll bite:

2002 was roomy but 2004 was a cramped sauna. 2005 was somewhat similar, or something along those lines -Limp Ninjas reported in while I was watching bikini babes frolick with supersoakers at PMP. They may have been annoyed at hearing me getting tipsy, so I'll hand you that one for old time's sake.

The only roomy parties I experienced in germany were TUM 2003 and 2004, and only disastrously so. They converted to the Evoke model last time, so there goes another party where leg room is for the happy few.

Hm. Now that ryg mentioned it, I think I didn't visit Ambience but Takeover ;)

shifter: I sure need to visit more non-german parties (and I plan to do so), but yes, I do believe german parties have set high standards organizing-wise, mostly due the 3 major german parties building on each others experience, and cooperatively competing with each other. We've got a pretty big pool of experienced party organizers, and imho that's quite noticable.

Feel invited to name "high quality" parties (not including small fun meetings, every party is nice if you can meet your scene friends) and what makes them worth a visit.

And still, I do believe the main reason for germans not to be seen at parties abroad simply is that with 3 major events + several nice small parties in your own country, there is not much time left nor the urge to visit more parties. At least that's the reason for me.

Excuse me to exist but bw@untergrund.net doesn't seem to be functional anymore while i lost my password ;D

You are being a bit unreasonable here Shift, Evoke 2005 had a very nice, roomy and comfortable partyplace, and imho so did Breakpoint 2006. Sure you had to get a seat in advance of a compo, but there was no trouble with space whatsoever. (Do take in mind I didn't take a machine with me, so I'm not sure about the table status).

And this whole pissing contest is going nowhere anyway. It's a shame that UC has to collide with Demozone, but I'm quite sure te demographic for UC are people that wouldn't have visited Demozone anyway... Allthough it would be a shame the have to miss the Cologne division at DZ this year :(

Ah, finally a decent discussion about leg-space on demoparties that is based on nationality, organizing, year and releases of the party. I am really interested to see the number-of-amiga-relases to leg-space ratio and wether - in general - dutch parties have more leg-space than german ones and how that compares to the - subjectively noticed - dutch people being taller than the germans. bring it on!

that said i have to say that i thought demozone was one of the nicest parties i went to last year. Even though it didn't have many relases nor people. It just was a nice camping-hangout with nice people and beer. And, Okkie, don't be so quick with you assumptions, the "Cologne Division" will be there :)