pouët.net

rainmaker: congrats for making #2 in the compo and #1 in the 360 group btw and congrats for getting away with the free 360 ;)

Any idea if I can run it on a real devkit without having to install that XNA shit? Could watch it on the real machine at work instead of the video.

Amiga will kill the scene, there is no point in making demos for such a powerful platform! -1988

Windows will kill the scene, you cannot take full control of the hardware! -1996

mp3/opengl/directX/c++/open source/lack of open source/being degraded into consumers/hugi/death of amiga/death of c64/expensive software/photoshopping/pixel shaders/ridiculous hardware requirements/crappy compos/lack of information/releasing information/elitism/commercialization/staying underground/insert your own will kill demos/graphics/music/the scene/all the good people/your mom.

Shut up, already? You don't like it, you don't need to watch it.

you forgot demotools

That was the "degraded into consumers"-part.

The demoscene is a part/branch of the more global hackers culture which is itself bounded to the personal computer event/array/phenomenon/whatever, it'll die along with it (and that shouldn't happens anytime soon).

XNA as a development platform is not the problem -the closed pay-a-subscription bullshit model of distribution of things intended to be free *is*.

The example of the Windows license is somewhat irate -I didn't buy an XP license just to get a bunch of homebrew games and, which is important here, *demos* running. It's something that in my case is being used for a bunch of different tasks and rather vital to what I do with a computer. And that's a single expense to boot, not a monthly WoW affair.

The porting-to-windows-hooray excuse for XNA is equally moot. Sure, it's great that people are in the position to port it to a less constrained platform, but what the hell is the point of making the X360 demo in the first place then? Make the thing run on Windows in the first place and stop thinking a X360 version is useful or interesting. An interesting omission in this whole XNA bitchfest is that Assembly and Microsoft were pretty stoked to emulate the Intel Democompo formula a bit too much. I also wonder if the turnout of one good, two mediocre and one quick hack of a XNA demo is what MS had in mind when they handed out 9 (I hazard the last one never got an owner) free units.

I would have less problems with a system where demosceners could release a X360 demo without forcing the end-user to fork over. But I really have no delusions about how that will resurface. It won't ...just yet.

Preacher: I liked the 360 demos, they were actually my favorites in the compo (beside ASD's prod). As we discussed on IRC, I also find really cool that 10 groups got away with a free 360.

What bothers me is that any everybody has to pay $100 per year just to be allowed to code stuff that moreover will eventually profit microsoft, showing how active this platform is.
Worse, the end user also have to pay for it each year just to watch those demos (not to mention that XNA does not grant proper access to the 360 hardware like the real SDK does).

Afair, I did not have to pay for demotools, OpenGL, c++ use or DirectX. Once I had paid the machine with the preinstalled OS and paid for the compiler, I did not have to pay a $100 annual fee.

If I already paid for Windows, the compiler and the 360, I don't understand why I should pay 100 more annual dollars to be allowed to code on it, especially with a sub-sdk.

Too bad because I really think the 360 is an excellent demo platform.

you guys should check out linux instead, it is free!!
(not free as in free beer though)

I didn't like the CNS demo and they made me watch it TWICE :(

now that we have several nice xna demos i'm sure we're much much closer to actually making every 360 owner able to watch them...

Hmhhh.

Shifter just made me thinking that maybe i should install a Linux. I just realized that my "bunch of different tasks and rather vital to what I do with a computer" doesn't have anything to do with Windows. So thanks for your promotion on Windows, which made me realize i don't really need it :)

Or maybe instead of installing a linux, i'll join the gay army of Mac owners... NOT

Except for your glorified XNA obsession :)

But yeah, I use Windows, Linux and OSX nowadays. Because I'm gay. The Apple logo on my computer told you so.

Well i just came to a conclusion that XNA is way better than OpenGL1.1 with all it's extension shit and the million state machine flags. And that's my developer's point of view. I don't give a flying fuck if noone's able to run my demo because it's on some platform that people don't have access to.

I don't know which API i'll be using next, but it surely won't be ogl1.1 anymore. I'll have to wait and see the Longs peak, or maybe i'll switch to d3d.

And I'll have to agree with you on the part with Windows port of an XBOX demo rendering the XBOX version obsolete. Sure, it's nice to be able to run the demo on many different platforms, but then you really can't do anything that's platform specific.

One thing is for sure and we all agree on that at least, Shifter is a faggot \o/

I could help snickering :)


Yeah, that's a choice people make. The problem is mostly dealing with the idiots who want it to run on platform y because others *do* port their baseline material from x to y. I know from experience that it's no fun having to explain people need to buy the real deal if they want to see it :)

However, that's not the big deal. X360 demo creation is constrained by design, and artificially to boot. That is.

And keops is just counting his blessings and getting ready for our date. Don't mind him.

Rainmaker: My problem with the concept:

IF the demos require a price to view, you, as the author, DAMN WELL better get a cut. All forms of Timbalanding suck, and this just looks like a big Timbalanding to me.

I haven't seen word ONE on that happening with demos.

Now then, where's that fucking paypal button on the demo launcher..

This is how we thought about it before doing the demo:


..and that was it. Sure, working with debugging/running code on the thing is horribly br0ken (try using more than one development computer and you will know what I mean :) and XNA is really "C++ for kiddies", but still; it was a challenge, and it was fun.

I have the book Professional XNA Game Programming For Xbox 360 and Windows and I am going to get rid of. It's not for sale. I am going to burn it or at least hide it.

I don't need anymore Microsoft and its Company or any shit that comes from that direction, but it takes some time to renew mine and my friends studios. If you can't make alternative (for example operating system for gaming and office purposes for pc or mac), i'll do it but not alone. Well i thing its there already. Check Norway, Sweden and others, Wolrd of warcraft!

i guess i'm twice as gay as others, i'm programming XNA on a mac...

Any changes on this? Licence changes, free distribution, €/$, etc...?
With xbox360 @ €150 it makes a pretty good platform.

You actually dug up this ancient thread instead of just googling it..?

i payed 3 euros for linger in shadow on ma ps3! *fap*fap*fap





which brings me to the next question:
who the fuck is ordering hookers from my money @ plastic? do u guys even see a cent of it? :D