pouët.net

In the window behind this one I am coding my first demo.
It sucks ass.

MrMessiah commercial-grade quality control will not let it
be uploaded until it sucks (at most) half as much as the
worst demo I've ever seen, or until I get bored/demotivated/
slip on the "send" key/whatever.

Inopia said :
""So my question is then, if you can't do any better yourself, in what position are you to judge others? ""

so, in your opinion, you canT make critics about :
- movies, because you're not a movie maker
- cars, because you're not in car indistrie
- food, because you're not cooker
- television, because you're not in a tv show
.... i hope no

the true question is : why do you make demoscene art ?
- for yourself ?
- for your friends ?
- for a microcosm audience called demoscene ?
- for a general audience ?
...
and why do you see demoscene art ?

I think that no one should care about 2-lines comments written on Pouet, coming either from the coolest scener on earth or from the most lame asshole in Apocalypse Design Multimedia Production Ltd.

At least, we don't. Or pretend not to. Or something.

And now I'll go spraying some thumbs down just to get rid of lame NeHe rippers (as if that could help). Then I might order some dutch quality cheese, since I've been told it makes you fart a lot...

Ofcourse you can make judgements about demos without producing. But if you know how much time and effort especially a first production (because you have to code one entirely from scratch) takes, I think you have more respect for the work that goes into such productions. All I am saying is that it's easy to critisize other people without really knowing what's behind it. How many times have you not heard some guy talk about a great movie as being bad because he just didn't get it?

Damn, I don't even know where this discussion is going anymore. Everybody seems to be wanting to take it elsewhere. I just want people to think before they drive others into the ground. Is that so much to ask for?

oh and about _216_, I never meant to attack him personally, he just took it that way it seems.

I don't want to start a war here, I'm just angry about the fact that newbies should feel welcome in the scene. People should respect that great coders/musicians/graphicians are not born that way. Greatness doesn't come overnight. Let people put in their first prods and judge the prods as being first prods, not as being the latest great demo. Hell, my first 64k's where crap too, but I can't remember total strangers flaming me for it.

Lets all get nude! and jump around and welcome eachother with open arms and sunflowers!

Lets take our shoes off, and be happy about it all the way it is :)

lets Consider newbies our children :D and raise them to get nude! and jump around and welcome eachother with open arms and sunflowers!

sorry, I was a bit unserious there :))
have fun, and remember to welcome your next newbie like you were welcomed as a newbie, or something ... laterz

| dear mister _216_, if your contribution to the scene is
| merely to bitch about other people's work, then quite
| frankly I would be glad if you left.

that's what i was commenting around, inopia. all your discussion revolves around a certain set of premisses
which you appear unable to justify. (== that most of the
sterile criticism comes from inactive people)

hey, all i did was that i disagreed with everything. and for a reason imo.
quick clue: my avg ratings are 0.22, i haven't to my knowledge torn apart anyones first try as a demo (fr08 isn't one is it?), i dont think respectable sceners do that either and i think raging about this is still complete nonsense and an issue that has gone thru several times too much.

who cares. if they get spooked, then let them.

...._..
.../\).
../ /..
.( Y)..
..""...

look, a penis

If a newbie really loves the scene and desires to improve and produce something really cool in the future then he/she won't really go away of the scene. At least that's how I feel it as a newbie myself (I still have done nothing nothing, except of laming on pouet and getting glops and silly pages and stuff. Really wunt to code some cool stuff on various platforms but it may take me time to improve :P)
But ok, state of mind is diferrent in each scener, I am just crazy and I won't leave the thing that is called scene whatever shit I will ever hear! (I won't leave my spirit fade away ;P) But perhaps I am wrong for the others... but haven't seen anyone leaving the scene because of bad comments, I also don't take them very seriously..

Btw,. I think that there is a lot of friendship in the scene today (I don't know how it was in the older times but I think they were very elitish go away kido attitude) you get in, you do simple stuff and you still get possitive comments about your prods however if they are lame noble first tries,. that's good and it's a funny thing on the scene! (I have got great "you rule man" email feedback about my qbasic demo (Ok,. from the qbasic sceners, don't be kidding with myself ;) and "not bad,. don't worry, it's your first time, not bad for a newbie,. go on!" for my 1-2 crappy prods ;) It's funny to see that friendship in the scene in fact,. nice thing,. beeing a perfectionist myself and still in my first years (Still lot of way to carry) I am dissapointed with my few things, but people keep giving me courage in a possitive way :) Friendship is not something that lacks from the scene, there is lot of it out there todays, I am pleased with the condition of the scene...

There's something called constructive critisism, and that is by all means fine with me.. It could actually help people you know.. But a "this just sucks" will just cause the new people (like me) to stop =/

The whole point in comments is that you'll get to know what other people think about the stuff you've done. If you don't like a demo you'll let whoever did it know what was wrong with it and thumb it down. If you like it, go praise it. Simple as that.

If someone can't take people's opinions the way they are, and wants people to lie to him instead of letting him hear the truth, then fine by me. As long as he doesn't bring this attitude to pouet.net, and ruin other people's (who want to get better at creating "art" or whatever demos are classified as today) chances at actually seeing their stuff from another (maybe even critical) perspective. Keep your comments honest.

With just negative comments you're taking the motivation of newcomers away, and what do you expect you're getting to?

If I like a demo/intro I vote thumb up and put some positive comment in line. I also do this when I feel the creater(s) are progressing and might become really good.
If I don't like a production I don't say anything at all and I don't vote.
If for some reason the demo is offending or something I'd vote thumb down and explain why. "IT SUCKS" or "CRAP!" aren't good comments.

And constructive critisism isn't always a negative comment, I think it would be a lot more constructive to point out the good parts so one knows which way to go.

"..But a "this just sucks" will just cause the new people like me) to stop =/.."
".."IT SUCKS" or "CRAP!" aren't good comments..."
that's why people were talking about pouet moderatorial/editorial team for a long time already..

hmmm..
shouldnt newbies know by now who are the people who just diss but never do anything productive for the scene themselfs and who are the real sceners trying to give a (obviously missunderstood as a diss but really intended as a "keep at it" pat in the back) constructive criticism.
hell, the newbies should be able to tell the diference between an awesome prod and an average newbie one on their own.. why are we even having this discussion?
*shrug*

please shut the f*ck up!

Part of pouet.net's existance is to allow people to critique the work of others, whether they're new to the scene or not. Personal attacks are silly, agreed, but if you don't like something, you don't like it. Besides, in terms of raw numbers, productions such as ".the .product" get far more negative comments than some 'newbie' demo which one or two people might bother to download.

whats wrong with criticism. if you dont want it, dont place your production on pouet. i do agree that there are a certain number of people around here who themselves are capable of nearly nothing but do persist in placing nasty criticism. i know the only right way to have criticism is to point out the things you dislike about the product at hand, but we don't want to spend time doing that all the time now do we? we just want to be able to leech a production, watch it, take another zip of our beer and thumb it down whilst saying 'oh crap'. it's all so subjective. and to newcomers.. well ARE THERE ANY? maybe a few, but, especially in the Dutch scene, it's getting very obvious that there arent any :)

i'm one of the latest generation Dutch sceners and i've been walking the walk for a while now (which doesnt mean i'm a lousy impatient coder ;).

everybody just relax :)
do what you like to.

yours sincerely,
superplek/damage.

(p.s i'm tired dont flame me for my bad s(m/p)elling)

this thread sux!

agreed

we better clear the screen then

If your demo gets thumbed up, make a better one to please yourself and the ones who liked it.
If your demo gets thumbed down, make a better one so they'll like it.
Easy.

just make whatever you fucking please

To borrow an idea from another thread, how about making
the prod comments a unique field in the db, so people have
to be more expressive than "this sux"? ;)

Oh hang on, "this suxxxxxxxx"... yeah, OK, bad idea :)