pouët.net

Yeah I'd also love more explanation and proof of this vague botnet of fakeusers incident from last year.

here's an idea for scene awards: instead of forcing people to be part of your public voting, have an open call for submissions and let people enter their prod in to the public voting if they want to be part of this travesty

Well, I'm not hardcore as nosfe is :)

Of course it's a real pleasure for me to be a part of the nominees, but only if everyone is ok with that and don't call me a cheater.

raz0r1911 cr4xx0red the voting system in 2011!

I like that it bothers nosfe.

Well, that's how it is today (people nominate prods on Pouet), except other people can nominate you of course. Granted, in this case I think we can be fairly certain that if you want to ask for votes, you'll also want to make sure you're nominated first so I can't really see what difference it makes.

Perhaps a better solution is to just remove the Public Choice-category all-together, since it's clearly the odd one out.

There's also a different approach where you basically allow people at demoparties to vote, using the voting-systems already in place. Say: all parties who want to participate gets a dump of all prods eligible for being voted on, and you let that run for 8 months or so. Each party sends the voting report for that "compo" to Scene.org and they are tallied. You can even do it from year to year, say from Revision to Revision. So at the party you both announce last years winners as well as open the next year for voting (including the releases from Revision, obviously). That way, you keep the voting to people who actually give a damn.

Anyway: there are many solutions and methods to use, if the Public Choice-category still has a right-to-life, but this year the method chosen was rewritten voting guidelines.

dubmood/rez: I'm sure you're free to contact Scene.org and ask for the proof if you think we're just making it up. Also: I've read this entire thread and I can't see once where someone has called you a cheater, so please give it a rest with the melodrama and strawmen. :)

What's been said (by different people) is, as I can see it, two things:

- Some people don't think asking for votes in the Public Choice category on Twitter, Facebook, IRC and such, conforms with the voting guidelines. This is of course the core issue for many, where opinions differ. All Scene.org has said is that fraudulent votes will be disregarded.

- Last year there was an issue where botnets and a large number of fake users were used to vote for one particular prod which happened to be yours. Now: everyone in an official Scene.org capacity has been crystal clear all along in that we don't know who were behind it, just which prod was the "benefactor" of those tactics.

That is all. Everything else is, as Tomoya correctly points out, heresay, rubbish, trolling and randomness. You might also, if only for a second, entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe, the Scene.org Awards staff were trying to help people save face -- and not kick them in the face.

and will there be Atari Scene Awards this year?

Pffft forget ATARI, when is THIS happening again??

gloom: I already contacted them to ask more information :)

well, and be a little bit honest, you didn't wrote the word "cheater" but you said with your usual rudeness that with used botnet/fake account when at the beginning of the thread it was only about voted asked on social media. I think it's not really the same thing between asking people to vote and purely generate vote, isn't it?

So, I think I'm not a bad boy, I want to know what happened since nobody told me about that fake account/botnet story last year but only about too much account created because of our news posted on facebook.

And as it was written in the new rules, I am perfectly ok if you want to K-LINE me from last year results if it's proven that we cheated.
It's not about pushing the melodrama and want to be victim, it's just common sense, I don't want more thumbdown on my prods just because of that :)

To finish on that subject, I present my excuse to everybody if I sounded like an attentionwhore and to gloom if I was to rude in my answers, but that topic made my nuts at some points ( * 3*)

\o/

rez: I apologize if I was rude to you in terms of the botnet/fakeuser-information. I was under the impression that you were informed about this already, but clearly you weren't.

Hey, come on folks. Don't you think this is a little bit unfair time to redirect drama to your whatever silly award thingy? I mean, while VARIFORM 2 is now the king of democompo, there's still plenty of controversy it needs to surpass entries in other compos and it desperately needs your focused attention in order to rise to the heights it was intended to.

So please, how about you consider postponing this bullshit a few weeks or maybe even a month instead of having it right now? kthx.

fyi, variform2 doesnt compete in the 2011 awards (which shall be rewarded at assembly) but the 2012 (next year!) ... so there is still plenty of time for the 'let variform2 win all categories'-campaign that smash^flt and i are preparing as we speak :)

Um. Now you're again talking about that whatever silly award thingy :)

you dont like inbetween solutions?!?!?!?!?!

forget the awards, as the intro by rez said it, scene awards is dead

+1 for the party voting system

The party voting system might work quite well. Still, we have to make sure that every scener only gets one vote even when visiting 10 parties in between the nominations and the actual awards. Which implies the usage of sceneID. Which on the other hand requires internet access at the partyplace since I doubt that there will be something like an offline version of it that needs to be handles by trusted persons. Not to forget the additional work for the party organizers.

And there's still no guarantee that somebody will just make new sceneIDs to start with the fake/namevoting again. Of course that can be fixed quite easily as we could check timestamps for new sceneIDs and so on.

Forget about the detailed voting guidelines. What matters is the fundamental purpose of the Public Choice award, expressed like this on the Awards website:

Anything that goes contrary to this (for instance, someone casting a vote that is not based on his or her personal preference, or advertising the award to anyone that might be likely to do so) defeats the purpose of the award.

IMHO, what happened last year (and, to some degree, this year) was not cheating. It was merely an action based on excitement over one's demoscene production (an excitement that Punqtured described eminently above), which had the (possibly unforeseen) consequence of making a production win that was (presumably) not the one preferred by the most people. An action based on a misunderstanding of the purpose of the award (which was not as clearly formulated last year).

(And I should use less parentheses, I know.)

To prevent that situation from happening again, we formulated the voting guidelines, where we threaten people with "discounting votes" if they engage in the kind of behavior that we consider contrary to the award's purpose. This threatening attitude was perhaps not the best way of communicating the real issue, which is:

The voting process behind this award is fragile. If we want the results to have any value, we all have a responsibility in making sure the process is as unbiased as possible.

The Public Choice award is what we make it to be. If you want it to be a Scener's Choice Award, do not advertise it to someone you don't consider to be a scener. Part of the essence of the Public Choice award is that it is not up to the Scene.org staff to decide who is a scener and who is not. Scene.org != scene != Pouet.

D.Fox: yeah, I'm not saying it's the ideal solution, but it's one possible solution if we want to avoid pure public internet "free-for-all"-voting.

Blueberry: well, the two years differ in one aspect -- the botnet-user-creating-and-voting, but that's really just methodology.

The 10th annual Scene.org Awards - nominees are out
The nominees for the 10th Annual Scene.org Awards have been published! The top productions chosen by the public are also available for a final round of voting for the Public Choice award:

- Batman Forever by Batman Group
- D - Four by Ctrl-Alt-Test
- Human Traffic by Ghostown & Loonies
- Numb Res by CNCD & Fairlight
- Pirates of the 777 Seas by Razor 1911
- Shake off the Dust by Elude
- Spin by Andromeda Software Development
- The Butterfly Effect by Andromeda Software Development
- Uncovering Static by Fairlight & Alcatraz
- We Have Accidently Borrowed Your Votedisk by Razor 1911

The 10th Annual Scene.org Awards prize-giving ceremony takes place at the Assembly Summer 2012 demoparty on 4th of August, in Helsinki, Finland.

For more information, please visit our website at http://awards.scene.org/
[Submitted by melw]
lobstregated at BitFellas.org on 2012-04-17

Amiga for the win! :)

I won't entered the main debate, basically because it's been debated quite enough already, and finally after 13 pages (default settings) we get glimpses of common sense and less flaming, which is perfect.

however
-1 for the party voting system

party goers != scene

I'm thinking of people like deathy who's stuck in Alaska, or all the other sceners who are either too busy or too far to get their butts at parties. They're still sceners. Sometimes more so than those who go to parties to either get drunk, play games, etc (not aiming anyone in particular).

so, is it a good idea? like Gloom would say:

:)

to conclude the thread so far, an algorithm for the publics choice award: points awarded when voting == age of sceneID + glöps on pouet * pictures of yourself drinking beer on slengpung + demos released that does not cause embarrasment outside the scene^friends in the sceneawards jury - times you joined big cracking group names^times you slept with the girl you see if you googleimage porn+commodore64.