pouët.net

rez, I hope it's half decent popcorn that you stole from a thief.

kb_ hahaha :D

(you must be right since the popcorn's author isn't credited on the cup).

On that whole demoscene originating from crackingscene-thing... Doesn't all kids grow up to hate their parents at some point in life?!

haha, nice comment :D

btw, the thing I like in cracking-scene is the crack intro, nice trainer menu, chiptune and others cute related artwork, not especially all the "business" behind...

as an old fart, I understand well that is not the same thing today with all AAA games made by hundred of people with MM$ budget compared to the small C64 game when I was 8 years old...

Look, its a hard biz, if your game dont sell because it sux, blame the companies who make better games than you that sells and not piracy. Today there is way to many games beeing made and way to many crappy studios who cry rivers of babylon out of kbs ass. Thats the free market in your face, if you dont like it let us then agree that it was better in DDR. And honestly wich was the last game-title worth playing? -Worth playing withtout buying a stationary supercomputer because todays game-programers cant optimize shits thatis.,-

huh? what? i didnt say that you should fist each other..even not virtually!!

Rez: people are still pirating stuff from the bedroom coders too. I've seen it a lot on the iphone, people pirating 59p apps. The worst I've seen though has to be people buying hacked itunes accounts to make in-app purchases. This isn't just losing the devs a few sales, it's stealing straight from someones bank account :(

Akuma: that's exactly what he was talking about

@psonice: as registered iPhone dev I think it's totally lame to crack and distribute 1$ game, personnally I bought all the apps on my phone and computer (even Photoshop, replaced by Pixelmator on Mac!).

I find that very well, offensive and interesting at the same time. Offensive not so much since I quit making games after Killzone 2 (SCEE PS3, so not that lame) but how, with your limited to completely void indepth knowledge of gamedevelopment, do you draw such a conclusion? Tell me, give some arguments to work with. I could go a 1000 different directions to prove you wrong but I'd rather do it based on your own beliefs (which haven't changed in the past 7-8 years apparently). I really feel sorry for the fact that *you* have a changed a bit whilst most others have evolved.

have->haven't

i think that gameengines arent optimized to death anymore is solely based on todays complexity of them. st some point it would cost more money to do it than it generated benefits.
im not saying every modern game is a waste of resources per se, but adding abstraction layers on top of abstraction layers cant result in the same efficiency as if it was written is pure asm.

It's perhaps probably because hardware evolve faster than before, not time to stay on the same hardware to find ways to optimize it to the maximum :)

It's a bit simple to say that they aren't "optimized to death". Firstly there is the factor of "where should I optimize" and secondly, from where I have worked and have seen (TR, KZ et cetera) it's not just a 1-dimensional challenge. Time and money come into play. But let me tell you that the most impressive programmers I've met in the last 10 years were all colleagues and not demosceners. It's how you juggle that. And pure assembly, don't get me started, that is a very controversional subject and only useful when applied in the right way, the right spot and in the right time frame.

You were very correct, and Rez too: the complexity of both hardware, consumer needs and publisher 'push' keeps being a major strain on development. Pick out the best games and there you can see how a well-balanced product comes to be. But that doesn't mean that titles that fall short a bit on X or Y are developed by idiots. Stuff simply isn't that black and white.

Lots of games aren't optimised well. Lots of them are buggy too, and have bad gameplay. Is that a new thing? Is it fuck, I remember slow, buggy and shit games all the way back to the c64 and before.

If you think things are worse now than back then, maybe it's time to go play some of the old games? Not the classics you remember, they were the good ones. Go play the ones that got bad reviews and copied over :)

Spot on. Check out Outrun and another 100 games released in the same year..

(yeah, I'm a sucker for Outrun Arcade)

Furthermore I'd like to challenge most coders here who think they really stand a chance, outside the spectrum of handpicked innerloops, against a good optimizing C++ compiler. Get the fuck lost already and focus on what counts, it's not 1995 anymore.

1995? Dude, most of the oldschool-trolls on Pouet never left the 80s. :)

whats wrong with the 80's ?!? :)

funny thread...

some people here seem to have severe conflicts of interessts.
demoscene and crackingscene where always like siamesetwins.
a good and a bad half.

the demoscene wouldnt even exist if the cracking/warez scene would not have released all these photoshop, maya, cubase releases.

Iam happy that we have sceners like those who work already in the gaming industry, but the same sceners used cracks back in the days to develop their skills. now, luckily they earn enough money to buy an original of photoshop or they just use the corporate version they got from the company.

but to be honest: the main part of the scene, especially in countries with an average unemployment rate from over 15% - dont have these opportunities.they use cracks. all of them. in ALL groups cracks are beeing used....

So this copyright discussion is ridiculous and totally missed the topic.
All of us took benefit from the warez scene.
And all of us do have mp3s who are not bought from the itunes store (or clones)...so please.

What is important here is the codex.
And the codex was broken...thats all.

It was "respect a sceners work".
It was never "respect anyones work".
That was copyprotection enough through decades and it would be nice not to weak this.

Apart from the whole point you are making, which I do not discredit as a whole..



How exactly? Illegal copies of compilers, graphics software and the likes? Hardly. And especially for us/those who went on to earn a buck for console vendors it's hardly a loss in the end :) But that neatly touches the whole subject if piracy is really as harmful as it's made out to be by larger corporations that are as much as on the wrong side of the spectrum as "extremist" warez-people are. I download all American TV series weekly without qualms, no point in waiting for for the first season of a cool series to appear on local TV channels 3 years later, even though I am still paying, indirectly, for those syndication rights. Just to name an example.

plek: exactly...name me 5 guys - age 12 to 14 - who own an original of Photoshop.You wont find a single one...

From the economic side i totally agree - from sceners side i totally dont care.i want young talents in the scene, with the same chances than others. scene cant be just "the best group can only be the group who works only with original software" - because i fucking dont care if they bought their cubase or downloaded it - when the soundtrack flashes me. Its about the scene...not about economic interessts.

and if a company dies while their groundbreaking software is so fucking good that anyone wants to have it - but without paying: then those companies should check their business plans and their salesstructure again.

I use pirated versions of MSVC and Photoshop as well, still up until today. But I hardly think MS or any other vendor I used the software for professionally in the past actually cares that most of us used their software illegaly during the learning curve that built up to actual revenue (read: games that ship over a million copies or more), profitable for said companies. But that is just 1 side of it all.

There are 2 girls who apparently specialise in making chocolate popcorn ;)