Ripping, cheating and re-releasing at Breakpoint and how we are going to deal with it
category: general [glöplog]
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Well, speaking as someone who was on that jury... if you want to enter an Oric picture into the graphics compo, it's your own responsibility to make sure that someone with an Oric is present at the preselection showing. That's how it's always worked. It sounds to me that the organisers were being exceptionally generous to include it in the compo regardless, so don't blame them for your mistake.
Gasman: I asked before I submitted if it was fine that the picture got released both as a PNG and as a TAP file, and I even took the time to package a self running emulator showing the picture. I've been answered that it was fine for them, what do you want me to do more ?
If something was wrong, they had to tell me BEFORE. The fact is just that my submission was on a floppy, and for some reason it was not copied to the jury machine's hard drive: Not my fault.
(Since NOBODY EVER has been able to connect an Oric to a video projector. We tried at Sota, we tried at Alternative Party, VIP, Volcanic, LCP, .... It never worked. So we don't bother anymore trying, we just show to somebody that the demo/picture/music/whatever runs on the realmachine, and the thing which is shown on screen runs on an emulator, or is a video. That's why I asked before submiting if releasing the Oric picture in a PC/emulator format was fine.)
I think most people are like me: They don't care about wining, they just want to share with others, and seing what you have been working hard on the big screen is the prize by itself.
Getting ripped off this forever because you are "disqualified" by not even having been seen by the jury, is the worse possible thing that can happen.
Ryg: This law agency from southern Germany is managed by Timbaland in his heroic crusade against demoscene. Don't give a fuck to this !
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we got called by the criminal police a week before the party because someone (some law agency from southern germany, we don't know details yet) claimed bp was a copy party.
damn funny btw. iam smiling but WHERE ARE ALL THE GOOD COPYPARTIES GONE (switches off amiga and gets ready to jump from window when polices are starting their raid!)
shifter: you might have gotten me a bit wrong there, my point was that taking something and turning it into something new is not a bad thing, and should not be called "rip" from the start and so on, thats why i referenced the amen break. you would be surprised how many people on the partyplace did not know it, btw.
seriously, how can non-profit demos be accused of copyright violations ? that's sick, and they are rather to be considered as giving free publicity and promotion.
copyright owners are simply mad to attack internet users who are potentially their customers... they'd better make internet their friends than fighting it. See in Europe that new legal case of Techland threatening 'random' p2p users : Techland are shooting at their own feet by ruining their image, i used to find them creative and interesting... but they decided to follow some 'pro-active' antipirate company and pay some not so professional business lawyers (their lawyer in france has been reported to have used non legal methods...). Lawyer used to be an admirable profession when it was to defend individuals against the sometimes abusive judicial system. Now a big part of lawyers just defend corporations, welcome to an americanished world :/
anyway don't let breakpoint be poisoned by some greedy lawyers >:(
copyright owners are simply mad to attack internet users who are potentially their customers... they'd better make internet their friends than fighting it. See in Europe that new legal case of Techland threatening 'random' p2p users : Techland are shooting at their own feet by ruining their image, i used to find them creative and interesting... but they decided to follow some 'pro-active' antipirate company and pay some not so professional business lawyers (their lawyer in france has been reported to have used non legal methods...). Lawyer used to be an admirable profession when it was to defend individuals against the sometimes abusive judicial system. Now a big part of lawyers just defend corporations, welcome to an americanished world :/
anyway don't let breakpoint be poisoned by some greedy lawyers >:(
too-many-bananas-in-his-ass-man: FZool has submitted an 6-year-old re-re-released (and already present in HVSC) SID done by Sonic/SDS in agreement with him. The exact binary-identical file, with only the year in the id-tag changed to 2007. Therefore FZool and Sonic have violated the rule of re-releasing material in that compo. They've also violated the rule of the author having to be present at the party (Sonic wasn't there). Fzool once has been a party organizer. Besides the rules clearly being written on our website, he knows them by heart. He therefore has cheated on purpose. He's simply a gigantic asshole and cheater.
And until today, AEG/Smash Designs, who has picked up the prize money/hardware prizes, has not returned the prize to us so we can give them to the rightful winner.
You may call this a big fuss. I call it a bunch of cheating LAMERS that steal compo prizes from rightful winners and should stay the fuck clear of any future Breakpoint compos.
And now crawl back into your hole, you stinking troll.
And until today, AEG/Smash Designs, who has picked up the prize money/hardware prizes, has not returned the prize to us so we can give them to the rightful winner.
You may call this a big fuss. I call it a bunch of cheating LAMERS that steal compo prizes from rightful winners and should stay the fuck clear of any future Breakpoint compos.
And now crawl back into your hole, you stinking troll.
abductee: You misunderstood me. I was just pointing out the difference of missing credits / bullshitting the visitors by making them believe something is original work and copyright violations we have to respond to even after the party to not get into legal trouble.
I'm just as disappointed as the next guy that for example TBL hasn't credited the source materials and inspirations. But that's simply nothing we could do about *now*. We would have need to know this during the party. Then we would have informed the visitors who could have decided if they still think the demo rocks by their votes.
Now, after the party, we'll only disqualify entries where it's 100% clear they are in violation with our rules. It means a lot of work (getting the compo prizes back and sent to the rightful winner etc), too.
I'm just as disappointed as the next guy that for example TBL hasn't credited the source materials and inspirations. But that's simply nothing we could do about *now*. We would have need to know this during the party. Then we would have informed the visitors who could have decided if they still think the demo rocks by their votes.
Now, after the party, we'll only disqualify entries where it's 100% clear they are in violation with our rules. It means a lot of work (getting the compo prizes back and sent to the rightful winner etc), too.
leija: If you know who the guy was who handed out two votekeys to archmage, please drop me a line on IRC or mail me, thanks.
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with only the year in the id-tag changed to 2007
...ok, that's just wrong.
zest: "anyway don't let breakpoint be poisoned by some greedy lawyers >:("
This isn't our decision. It's not like we can put up a sign "lawyers, go away please". Things happen. Just imagine the TBL release getting played on major TV like it often happened with the FR releases already. Now imagine a lawyer from Universal music watching this.
As long as the scene stays underground, the risk of getting into legal trouble is really small. The more popular our releases get in the outside world, the higher the risk. Now with everybody uploading demos to YouTube, the risk has risen again - YouTube is scanned by LOTS of lawyers.
We are willing to take over quite some risk. Many demos contain some form of slight copyright violation in one form or another. We are accepting this risk. We've got to draw a line somewhere. And TBLs usage of a Universal music track is extremely close to that line.
If the scene doesn't like having to follow copyright laws, there is only one solution: Let's go back underground.
This isn't our decision. It's not like we can put up a sign "lawyers, go away please". Things happen. Just imagine the TBL release getting played on major TV like it often happened with the FR releases already. Now imagine a lawyer from Universal music watching this.
As long as the scene stays underground, the risk of getting into legal trouble is really small. The more popular our releases get in the outside world, the higher the risk. Now with everybody uploading demos to YouTube, the risk has risen again - YouTube is scanned by LOTS of lawyers.
We are willing to take over quite some risk. Many demos contain some form of slight copyright violation in one form or another. We are accepting this risk. We've got to draw a line somewhere. And TBLs usage of a Universal music track is extremely close to that line.
If the scene doesn't like having to follow copyright laws, there is only one solution: Let's go back underground.
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too-many-bananas-in-his-ass-man
hey, that's almost like a synesthetics handle :)
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Now, after the party, we'll only disqualify entries where it's 100% clear they are in violation with our rules.
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Pure animations are not accepted, except in the Animation/Video competition.
Did you even see the binary file of the tbl demo ? And if yes then why isn't it released yet ? If it was after a specific demand of tbl who may want to finalize their entry that's ok i guess (i still wonder if one can really achieve 60fps with realtime fullscreen glow on a psp as it seems to display or if that video is just a fake).
As for more exposure of the demoscene it was clear from the start that it would (and will) bring more possible legal troubles.
Those "artists" who want it (the demoscene) to be more known/recognized by the mainstream medias better be clear about the origin of the material they use, that's the price to pay.
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too-many-bananas-in-his-ass-man
I am inspired.
Bring back non-party releases and then you can get away with anything. :)
hitchhikr: Yes, the compo organizer has seen the binary. The binary is now located on a laptop that TBL has forgotten at the party place and that we've sent by postal mail 2 days ago. So, yes, we are sure this isn't a fake, and the binary should become available within the next few days.
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And until today, AEG/Smash Designs, who has picked up the prize money/hardware prizes, has not returned the prize to us so we can give them to the rightful winner.
You may call this a big fuss. I call it a bunch of cheating LAMERS that steal compo prizes from rightful winners and should stay the fuck clear of any future Breakpoint compos.
FINALLY NO MORE SMASH DESIGNS DEMOS AT BREAKPOINT!!!!11 THERE MUST BE SOME FAIRNESS IN THE WORLD AFTER ALL
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shifter: you might have gotten me a bit wrong there, my point was that taking something and turning it into something new is not a bad thing, and should not be called "rip" from the start and so on
This is precisely what happened with Suicide Barbie about a day before the copyright infringement of the song came into play -the death scenes were already called ripoffs of the photos previously mentioned. I personally consider them a liberal use of artistic license -the demo title basically makes it impossible to not see the reference, so it's a bit of a wink at the originals. The music is a step up on top of that. The amen loop is not the same. This is "Acid Jazzed Evening"-style procuring.
How can your elite musicians who has known EVERYTHING about music and music releases before, at least during discussions about originality and music quality when it involves preselection, fail so hard?
I think you guys need a new music jury/preselection team. Seriously.
Oh and btw: Smash Designs suddenly got alot more interesting!
I think you guys need a new music jury/preselection team. Seriously.
Oh and btw: Smash Designs suddenly got alot more interesting!
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It's not like we can put up a sign "lawyers, go away please".
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The binary is now located on a laptop that TBL has forgotten at the party place and that we've sent by postal mail 2 days ago
wasnt that SFC?
Hm. Ok, looks like I mixed that up. Anyway, I remember being told that we'll have the TBL binary available shortly. Or already have. Something like that ;)
yeah, the lost laptop was SFC.
as for suicide barbie, we've already been given binaries by TBL, but haven't put them up yet since we're waiting for a fixed version with at least the vocal samples removed (due very soon). still something of a gray zone, but we're willing to risk it.
as for suicide barbie, we've already been given binaries by TBL, but haven't put them up yet since we're waiting for a fixed version with at least the vocal samples removed (due very soon). still something of a gray zone, but we're willing to risk it.
Ah, thx ryg for the clarification.
lol great now all the game will be to grab the uncensored original binaries :>
