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Given the constant decline in PC shipments (source), it's safe to say that we're slowly but surely entering the so-called post-pc era. So why is it that smartphone/tablet demos are still being treated like second-class citizens, shoved to the same compo with calculators, refrigerators and whatnot?

Sure, there isn't too many groups making mobile demos at the moment, but it might change if there was a real compo for them. I'm guessing there's plenty of know-how among the coders at least.

You know the "decline in shipments" means the _growth_ has slowed down, right? Meaning the number of PC's is still growing, just slower - because there hasn't been a good reason for people to upgrade as opposed to smartphone users who keep upgrading because every smartphone sucks.

I remember smartphones... they were the hottest thing ever in 2009!

Kurli, I agree sort of but then which mobile device and operating system should we accept to these mobile demo compos? Apple, Android or Windows phone? Those phones have hardware and operating systems that are all quite different. And should we include netbooks? How about handheld game consoles?

I would prefer more somekind of midschool platform compo rather than a seperate mobile competition.

Last Assembly 2013 wild demo compo was somewhat ridiculous. A bunch of people submitted productions that you could not test and you had no idea of their hardware limits. Many of the productions were just gimmick platforms with content that was not that special. I felt that it was just a compo about who has the weirdest hardware and not about the content the actually demos had. Its not the sceners fault who make these kind of productions but the sceners who endorse this kind of "vote for the hardware :D" mentality. I'll admit that I have done this myself too. But is this fair to the demos that have more effort in the content side and do not use as gimmicky hardware.

I agree with kurli. Demos made for mobile phone deserve their own category.

branch: Considering how easy is to bring a mobile phone to a demoparty, in the worst case you could show the demo with the hardware provided by the author/s.

make more mobile musicdisks already!

PCs are going nowhere, people just have no reason anymore to replace them every 2 years, as innovation has come almost to a halt. And "mobile" (Android, iOS, WinPhone) demos, along with Web/Javascript demos that run on fairly powerful hardware should be allowed in normal demo compos. There's no convincing enough technical differentiator anymore.

Maybe once mobile demos stop sucking.

and that concludes the thread.

As someone with absolutely no authority on the topic here's my 2 cents:
Why the hate for mobile demos? Sure, smartphones are somewhat of a gimmick, but there've been tones of arm based demos before, once you break through the user layers mobile devices are unimaginable powerful.
It may be harder to share compatibility throughout all platforms, but isn't half the point of demos to showcase your hardware?
If you had to pick an OS to focus on android pretty robust once you get through Dalvik, they're pretty much full fledged linux boxes once you give them enough GNU back.
And if you code for Dalvik it would run on pretty much any android device, and a demo in java would be the ultimate challenge.
For ages now we've has standard X86 chips and any code will run on any hardware, now we're back to the good old days where we have countless competing SOC manufacturers, all with their own GPUs, their own twists on what ARM actually means, spread over countless devices each running whatever OS they felt like that morning. We have iOS, android, WP, and about 5 other platforms based on linux.
After years of demoscene dieing because we no longer have anything to conquer, now we're faced with horribly limited API's running in 3 visualization layers with a powerful GPU that wastes all its cycles trying to handle a java nightmare just begging to be used for something other then compensating for horrible programing.
This could be the rebirth of demoscene, but you're complaining that the hardware's not good enough. This is demosscene, that's the bloody point.

Java demos are so 2003

Well, it's not a good comparison similar to coding for CPC or C64, where you knew this is my C64 so I am going speak to VIC and SID and make the absolute out of it. You still have generic APIs, OpenGL ES, Java or JNI, or whatever, that connects these slightly different model of phones, but not unique hardware each and you don't talk to hardware directly. The demoscene spirit is still surviving with the obsolete 8bit/16bit computers or even consoles, handhelds, etc.

But yeah, running demos on your phone rules!

I can't understand demos running on a mobile phone (5 inches screen at best) or on a tablet, while you can enjoy the full experience on a 27'' pc monitor with 5.1 surround sound.

Yeah, maybe we're entering the smart-tablet-wathever era, but that sucks.

Yea, exactly...
I ported my old OpenGL code to Android and iOS, and my D3D11 code to Windows Phone 8...
Even ported my old Java software renderer to Android (but Dalvik sucks so much that it still runs worse on today's high-end phones than on a simple Celeron 10 years ago... only with ART does it run acceptably, but still not as well as the regular Java version back in 2003).
But what's the point really? Aside from some small API differences, you're still writing the exact same code you did 10 years ago on regular PCs. Just generic 3d-accelerated stuff.

The point of the demoscene isn't dicking around with hardware, its to show off your ability to code and do graphics on a computer to as many people as possible - an exercise in dick waving.
the major requirements for that are a big audience, an audience that will run executable code, and relatively weak competition (visually) from games etc leaving the audience open to be impressed.

maybe, just maybe, mobile devices are now the best place to achieve that.

finally, an explanation of the point of the demoscene.

Or "can". Which kinda narrows it down to what, Android?

There are some good points on this page, but there is also something to be said about coding for mobile, namely that feels like coding for a slow pc, no? E.g. for graphics, it's opengl, only you're restricted to a certain subset of what your are used to from desktop. This sucks a little, even if you are awarded with all the things smash mentions.

And those who say that the demoscene is only about doing creative stuff on an inferior platform clearly has not been around long enough.

didnt we once go from commodore 64 to amiga ?
or from amiga to pc ?
or from 386 tot 486 ?
Why cant the scene go from pc to mobile ?
Oh wait the scene is multiplatform! why stick to one device or computer to be productive ?

Hope to download the new kewlers NVscene mobile demo as an APP shorly after the party though ;)

New platform to demo on?
Yummy.

I agree to Hyde.

And there are more reason.
From demo consumer's point:
-Mobile device have small screen.
I like to watch demo in big screen.
But some mobile have HDMI output.

-PC demos have more cool effects because they are more powerfull than mobile.
But some elite sceners make cool demo in less powerfull computer.
Modern mobile devices are faster than Amiga, isn't it?

From maker's point:
-Making demo for mobile means making demo in PC but run in different computer.
When you make PC demo, you can develop, test and debug in one computer.

it's a pointless discussion. the demoscene is inherently anarchistic - just do whatever the fuck you want, and if you do something great, then it will BE great regardless of the platform.

I want you
To demo
On this

Kurli: question: is it better for mobile demos to be in the "combined demos"-compo or the "alternative platform"-compo? Because AFAIK they're not really still being tossed in with "alternative platform" (atleast not outside of Finland :) - they either have their own compo (like we do at NVScene in a few weeks), or they're shown next to PC demos and web demos in the "regular demos"-category.