pouët.net

This weekend, I gave a short presentation on the demo-scene at a small film-festival in Jena. The small audience was quite mixed. I wondered, what kind of follow up link I should have given them.

It should include:
- a Very beautiful / mass compatible selection of demos ready to watch (4-6 demos embedded as youtube)?
- a very short easy to read introduction
- a reference to competitions, parties and demo-scene culture with a list of upcoming demo-scene events, screenings, etc.
- a follow uplink to "how to make demos" that starts very motivating (again listing all the cool things about making demos) and then lists a couple of options (wild, werkkzeug, tool-chains, frameworks, etc.)

I think the following site are not optimal:
- pouet - Are you kidding?
- Wikipedia - too much text there / easy to consume video content missing / "how to make demos" link missing
- scene.org - this site is plain ugly. Too much text / focuses on insiders / no video content
- digitalekultur.org - again too much text / no video-content / seems to be outdated
- demoscene.info - Good start but outdated

Some ideas:
- a Facebook page -> Probably hard to maintain
- a youtube-channel - we set up a our stuff

But actually, I believe that scene.org should be redesigned from scratch and focused on the outreach aspect, but that's just my 2 cents.

Any ideas on this topic?

Word. The demoscene web ecosystem is way too messy for a newcomer /outsiders.

Actually, one of the main purposes of demoscene.fr was to have this for a french-speaking audience (still a lot of work to do, but eg the code section kind of work for the a follow uplink to "how to make demos" point - greetings to #ponce).

(also, proper SEO on technical discussions is always cool for outreach - but I guess pouet.net does that well)


So, what to do?

Facebook page > I don't think it's the good solution for the intented audience. Plus, letting Facebook control the thing feels bad. Still, cannot hurt.

Twitter>A Twitter account, which collaborates with the existing websites, and broadcast the demoscene info would be really cool.
@demoscene does that a bit, but we need moar.

YouTube channel> yes, and embed the "best of"-playlist" on the site

Wikipedia>I like the content in there, even if I don't like the fact that it's in a home-made, demosceners-owned website. But that's how the web works nowadays, and it can be a good "more infos"-ressource to link to.

pouet.net > like you said

digitalekultur.org>it needs a more explicit domain name

ojuice.net> I happen to own the domainname. I know that Yes have plans to bring back ojuice to life, I dont know the status of them.

an up to date demoscene.info> why not

a new scene.org>perfect domain name (+ it's old), has always been the portal of scene stuff, could be really really great.

I remember reading stuff about a new scene.org, I don't know what scene.org staff have in mind?
Maybe scene.org ultimate purpose is only archiving? Or maybe it is this kind of proper portal/homepage you describe? I don't know.

But I think a modern scene.org, that embed demoparty.net/pouet/videos + embrace social medias (especially twitter & facebook) could rule them all.


Anyway, what we don't want to do:
- reinvent what already exists (Pouet have the conversations, Bitfellas the news, Wikipedia the content, Scene.org the files, Slengpung the photos, Demoparty.net the party infos, YouTube (& capped & tv) the videos, ...)
- spend more time talking on pouet than doing concrete stuff

For a start, we just need a couple of well designed webpages, that will embed/link the right ressources. It can be improved later.

For example:
- An homepage, siliconvalley-startups-style :
* home / what is the demoscene / how to start / last news / next events / stay in touch
* "Demoscene: reatime underground digital art [more infos]"
* embeded youtube playlist
* facebook & twitter

- what is the demoscene: a 5-6 paragraphs webpage, with links to wikipedia, and a embed youtube playlist (pc 4k show case, pc 64k showcase, pc demo showcave, other platforms showcase, demoparty live footage)

- how to start: again, a 5-6 paragraphs, with links to forums, tutorials, and source code

- last news: bitfellas feed + twitter account

- next events: demoparty.net feed

- stay in touch: links to forum, irc, pouet.net, and "blablabla the best way to discover the demoscene is to go to demoparties, [link to the 'next events' page]


But again, the main issue is not to decide about a sitemap/content, nor a domain name. It's to find the guy(s) who have enought motivation/time/seriousness/skill to do it.

My 2 cents.

pixtur: I'm currently working on two such "landing-pages", one for Scene.org and one for Displayhack. Not much help right now, but they're coming.

This work is also underway. Vounteers scream btw.

type demoscene into youtube and watch. that's actually better outreach than we had in the old days and we still managed to make things back then.

+1 for 4mat!

+1 for 4mat!

-2 for 4mat!
Youtube doesn't explain what the demoscene is. From an outsider POV it's just another youtube video.

no, but wikipedia does. If I see something interesting on youtube I usually google it afterwards, I'm sure most people are the same. It's how I've find out about some great music and artists. The best outreach (like every other medium) is doing something people go wow at, which is kind of what we are doing already isn't it?

People need to have some interrest and the will to look closer like on all other things and topics in life. And they need to think too. Maybe that's the hardest part; that can't be replaced by some nice presentation. And +2 for 4mat!

a scene.org redesign to make it a bit like more a demoscene portfolio would indeed be ace, especially as most of its current features (the news, the forum, the "overview of all kinds of shit") isn't really doing much anyway.

in that regard i like the awards.scene.org website already, presentation wise..

maali: that's good ;)

Will you kill the old forums?

As in replace them by newer ones... more resilient to spam.

arent they just relays for the newsgroups? and thus, totally uninteresting? :P

<selfplug> http://www.youtube.com/thedemotube </selfplug> ;)

xernobyl/maali: no decision has been taken, but my feeling is that they are no longer needed, no. Either just remove completely, or archive and write-only somewhere obscure, for historical reasons.

and what about that secret website gasman, dfox and some others are doing? :)

rez: as far as I saw it, that's more of a really comprehensive database. it's more made for sceners, it's not really "involving" for new people, for that purpose at least pouet has a strange zaniness around it.

I usually just point them to Pouet and say handle the "BBS" with caution.

Or tell them they can download stuff from scene.org.

If they're clueful enough, any of the random detritus doesn't unnerve them, and if they're stupid, they'll have to clue up sometime -- that's my theory.

Also, the Quiet doco and other stuff went over very well in the outreach thingy I did this past Friday. Most of what I got was "That is NOT 64K!" "Yes it is, look there at the filesize." "WTF" Rinse, repeat with 4K, except replace WTF with "BULLSHIT!"

That said, if somebody I respect is doing up a portal and wants input on text, I'm happy to give some. Presently working on two other text cleaning projects . . .

rez/gargaj: making Demozoo meaningful and accessible to newcomers is one of our main goals, yep. (The data-heavy homepage you've seen is just temporary, and will be replaced...)

Wasn't going to mention it here, because if I jumped into every relevant thread with "yeah, Demozoo is going to do that" then it would start to look a lot like Hugi's promotional strategy :-)

gasman: ..and _that_, you most certainly don't want :)

@gasman: it's too late, we are already expecting too much :(

\:D/

Great discussion.

@gloom do you remember the sketches for scene.org I did 10 years ago? I might volunteer to do some html/css stuff. :-)

For me the most important thing is reverting the current decline in releases. And for that there is only ONE objective: Guide more people to the awesome experience of releasing something.

Maybe, I'm thinking a little bit too marketing like here, but I see this as a funnel. I would cluster the average audience into personas (e.g. 60% hipsters, 10% computer nerds, 5% coders, 15% visual artists, 10% musicians) and define the funnel for guiding as many as them to participate into a release. The steps could look something like this:

"state" (what we do) -> Aim
1. "Nice animations..." (Show them beautiful stuff like "numb rez") -> Watch more / Subscribe
2. "Cool technology" (Explain that it's realtime) Be impressed
3. "64kb WTF?!" (Play the freak card) -> Remember / Share
4. "Culture/Community" (Introduce the nice, non-commercial, friendly scene) -> Visit a Scene event/screening nearby
5. "Teach" (Explain how easy it is to do SOMETHING with Demotools, foto-competition, music competition, etc.) -> Download a tool, read tutorials etc.
6. "Be part of a release" (Smooth the way to a release. e.g. explain them that posting questions at pouet is just fine and they just have to ignore the trolling shit-heads. Probably also provide some kind of forum to find the missing part (searching/offering music/code/design)) -> Be part of a release

A good redesign for scene.org should offer a nice channel through all of theses steps of all of the personas.

I personally think, that this introduction should very carefully balance nostalgia vs. modern design. Frankly speaking, I was never very successul in impressing non-sceners with C64-demos.

I also believe that we have to embrace the new platform for demos: WebGl and JavaScript could be either a huge opportunity or the death for the scene, because realtime animation will be done outside of the demoscene.