live music / graphics performance tools - wank or not?
category: general [glöplog]
I saw the guy who made 'jitter' at the decibel music thing this month
http://www.cycling74.com/products/jitter
Basically he had a 2d pad that he'd hit with these two wired sticks, making sounds come out and graphics display. The graphics were very intricately keyed off of aspects of the sound, but mostly they were boring, twitchy texture-splat wank.
Also, the software costs 100's of dollars US, and only runs on mac, with delayed, slow ports to win32.
Does anyone actually use this thing? Has anyone ever seen anyone using it? The whole experience made me think that 'electronic multimedia artists' should be kicked in the nuts.
http://www.cycling74.com/products/jitter
Basically he had a 2d pad that he'd hit with these two wired sticks, making sounds come out and graphics display. The graphics were very intricately keyed off of aspects of the sound, but mostly they were boring, twitchy texture-splat wank.
Also, the software costs 100's of dollars US, and only runs on mac, with delayed, slow ports to win32.
Does anyone actually use this thing? Has anyone ever seen anyone using it? The whole experience made me think that 'electronic multimedia artists' should be kicked in the nuts.
You are a pathetic, dumb, closed-minded fool.
and a lazy one to boot.
Do your fucking homework.
Do your fucking homework.
Hello mister GbND. Iam in the European Multimedial Artist Clubs (EMACs), wich is a cooperation between the biggest artist clubs and their authors in north and middle europe.
Currently most of our members are using Powerpoint, but rumours has it Impress is taking over.
Currently most of our members are using Powerpoint, but rumours has it Impress is taking over.
Hello mister sverige. Iam in the Virulent Instruments Musicians (vim), which is a cooperation between the biggest artist clubs and their eidtors in north and middle europe.
Currently most of our members are using operating system, but rumours has it an editor is taking over.
Currently most of our members are using operating system, but rumours has it an editor is taking over.
so I'll take that as 'not wank'.
When I see a coder demonstrate their expensive mac-centric software, I expect that I'm seeing it at it's best. He wasn't showing off anything significant graphically. Twitchy texture splats. No 3d. The site shows a few screenshots of some 3d objects, so it seems like it has lots of potential.
There are all sorts of very very expensive things that look really cool that no one uses because of how expensive they are. Nearly all of the links I find on max and jitter are about buying it or learning how to use it... but not people who've done things with it or perform. All the electronic acts that I see around seattle are people playing some prerendered graphics crap on a 10 minute loop while they spin their music. So, are there really people who fork out $1000 + on this s/w and control surfaces for it?
When I see a coder demonstrate their expensive mac-centric software, I expect that I'm seeing it at it's best. He wasn't showing off anything significant graphically. Twitchy texture splats. No 3d. The site shows a few screenshots of some 3d objects, so it seems like it has lots of potential.
There are all sorts of very very expensive things that look really cool that no one uses because of how expensive they are. Nearly all of the links I find on max and jitter are about buying it or learning how to use it... but not people who've done things with it or perform. All the electronic acts that I see around seattle are people playing some prerendered graphics crap on a 10 minute loop while they spin their music. So, are there really people who fork out $1000 + on this s/w and control surfaces for it?
knos, what the hell are you on about? had a bad day, i presume? i, for one, don't at all think gb is a pathetic, dumb and closed-minded fool. what am i doing wrong?
I wasn't reacting to his character (which I don't know about) but about the content of his query and commentary. And no, not a bad day at all for me.
The post is prejudiced against its topic, so I replied in a similar fashion. I'm not gonna bother even trying.
The post is prejudiced against its topic, so I replied in a similar fashion. I'm not gonna bother even trying.
actually, he asked for other people's opinion. that he included his own one doesn't mean that you can attack him without explaining why you disagree. quite honestly, i'd be rather interested to find out why you do.
up till now you've basically said "you're wrong and i'm right because i do know what i'm talking about and you don't, so i don't need to explain because i'm smarter anyway", or something.
up till now you've basically said "you're wrong and i'm right because i do know what i'm talking about and you don't, so i don't need to explain because i'm smarter anyway", or something.
oh, and this is the demoscene, not the max/msp scene. i think it makes a lot of sense that must of us have no clue about whether max is any good or not.
_-__-__-__-_-_-_:
I wouldn't have been so irate if the Jitter author guy hadn't been followed by Ryoichi Kurokawa
http://dbfestival.com/2006/?q=node/449
http://homepage.mac.com/etrerk/readdvdsample/readmov.html
whose hour-long set fucking _rocked_ and got a standing O from the audience. He doesn't admit to using Jitter on his artist's page, but apparently few who use it do, and fewer musicians who use Max/MSP admit to using that either. (I did my homework and got a C :p )
Anyway it all looks like it would be fun to play with and contribute to, but I tend to spend my graphics hobby budget on hardware, and make the software myself.
So that's why I'm so prejudiced - it all feels like pretentious, inaccessible, art school, expensive macmusic snobbery. I wish it weren't. I wish people didn't feel the need to restrict what they did and make it all so fuckin' expensive. I'd probably see more than one live electronic music/graphics performer per year.
I wouldn't have been so irate if the Jitter author guy hadn't been followed by Ryoichi Kurokawa
http://dbfestival.com/2006/?q=node/449
http://homepage.mac.com/etrerk/readdvdsample/readmov.html
whose hour-long set fucking _rocked_ and got a standing O from the audience. He doesn't admit to using Jitter on his artist's page, but apparently few who use it do, and fewer musicians who use Max/MSP admit to using that either. (I did my homework and got a C :p )
Anyway it all looks like it would be fun to play with and contribute to, but I tend to spend my graphics hobby budget on hardware, and make the software myself.
So that's why I'm so prejudiced - it all feels like pretentious, inaccessible, art school, expensive macmusic snobbery. I wish it weren't. I wish people didn't feel the need to restrict what they did and make it all so fuckin' expensive. I'd probably see more than one live electronic music/graphics performer per year.
Skrebbel: So it's fine to ask you if you stopped beating your wife? Should an islam-follower asking in a majorly islamic forum to be convinced that christianity is actually not a silly creed, be expecting reasonable answers?
Just because they don't have the same holy symbols and speak a different language. That pope sure look like a pretentious guy.
It's not by dismissing other scenes that you're gonna improve the demoscene. At least that's my *fucking* opinion. Group-think, and collective ego-stroking is not gonna make us improve. Sure we might be technically stronger than some of the people doing live visuals. But in terms of actual character, productivity and actual interest ... Let's just say that accusing people playing shows in clubs, museums, bars of being inaccessible is disingenous at best, when we are the most inaccessible bunch of all.
Last time we tried making a demoparty a public thing, well, let's say the sponsors did not feel like doing another issue. Might be due to the all inclusive, not-caring-at-all about the non-believers experience of the demoscene.
As for substantial material:
I do my own software as well, for different reasons that price. Because it's our background, because it's more flexible that way, and because I prefer my bugs to other people's bugs. But hardware is already expensive enough, and I'd be buying software if I cared about it.
In a similar fashion to max/msp you have the less expensive, windows-only, already discussed here, direct3d-built package called VVVV. The juicy stuff is at: http://www.vvvv.org/ which down to usual bad timing, appears to be down right now.
I'll just point you at: http://dataisnature.com/
Where you'll see some maybe fancy stuff done in processing, (which since a few months got full-screen opengl support) max/msp+jitter, flash, exoskeletons etc...
Just because they don't have the same holy symbols and speak a different language. That pope sure look like a pretentious guy.
It's not by dismissing other scenes that you're gonna improve the demoscene. At least that's my *fucking* opinion. Group-think, and collective ego-stroking is not gonna make us improve. Sure we might be technically stronger than some of the people doing live visuals. But in terms of actual character, productivity and actual interest ... Let's just say that accusing people playing shows in clubs, museums, bars of being inaccessible is disingenous at best, when we are the most inaccessible bunch of all.
Last time we tried making a demoparty a public thing, well, let's say the sponsors did not feel like doing another issue. Might be due to the all inclusive, not-caring-at-all about the non-believers experience of the demoscene.
As for substantial material:
I do my own software as well, for different reasons that price. Because it's our background, because it's more flexible that way, and because I prefer my bugs to other people's bugs. But hardware is already expensive enough, and I'd be buying software if I cared about it.
In a similar fashion to max/msp you have the less expensive, windows-only, already discussed here, direct3d-built package called VVVV. The juicy stuff is at: http://www.vvvv.org/ which down to usual bad timing, appears to be down right now.
I'll just point you at: http://dataisnature.com/
Where you'll see some maybe fancy stuff done in processing, (which since a few months got full-screen opengl support) max/msp+jitter, flash, exoskeletons etc...
most of the people i know use pd and some free thing for that instead of max msp & jitter...
Uses PAlib - crap.
lol
who cares what was used in making it, it's the end result that matters...
who cares what was used in making it, it's the end result that matters...
one thing i've noticed with such tools :
they are often easy to play with and tend to give you plenty of effects ideas when toying with them.
they are often easy to play with and tend to give you plenty of effects ideas when toying with them.
Quote:
It's not by dismissing other scenes that you're gonna improve the demoscene.
Excuse me but, improve from what, and what for?
