pouët.net

http://farbrausch.rockz.org/ryg/tyskac.html

I mean it. If there's any need to discuss it, do so here :)

I'm not going to comment your text as it's long and I'm actually going to sleep.

I just want to explain a bit why I put up Chimera as a Coup de coeur: I think it's an interesting prod and it is worth to be shown. Asm2k2 didn't expose it, and I'm just trying to balance it with what I can. The job of the Coup de coeur is to increase the popularity of some unknow but interesting prod, Chimera is certainly one of them.

"that preselectors and jurys are not there to spoil your fun and drag your releases down, but to make the compos a more interesting event for everyone"

thats why they choose to show really crappy graphics contribs instead of nice pictures like mine.. or .. hum, nevermind. i guess i am just one of those who "don't want to listen to arguments, they just want someone to be guilty so they can shout at him"

;)

Why all the hazzle about writing such a lengthy rant, when all you want to say is a single sentence ?

ryg, I agree with you, but you just can't stop the frustration when you've worked your ass off on something that is not shown on the big screen at the end. Unfortunately, I don't see what anyone can do about this, it suckes both ways equally.

I think the whole question is, do you want a demoshow
or a competition?

why can't some people accept it that also THEY can be selected out ? if some unknown group gets sorted out with a good entry, they usually don't complain around that much. that's life boys. sleep one night about it and after that prepare to rock on another party.
oh, and agree @ ryg. I guess doing a preselection after you probably miss sleep since more than just a few hours is surely even harder than any preselection already is.
last word: releasing something at asm means you know what you do anyways. zepo would not be the first to get you ;) and deadlines are also kept very tough.
yep, will party on now. demo compo is soon to start.

Something you imho shouldn't have done at mekka was say 'the first 25 are demos that the orgos think have high quality, the other 25 are... well of lesser quality'

EVERYBODY except maybe 15 people took the trouble to even watch the last 25 demos, the rest just went to sleep or whatever. I tought it wasn't very fair to the groups in the second half of the compo.

Right now, i'm still trying to find out if our demo was disqualified from a competition with a mere six entries. And if so, why...

TMR: I saw all the oldskool demo entries, but I wasn't on the jury.. you'd have to ask someone like Britelite.

BTW: This whole discussion can be summed up in one word:

KWAK

KRAK

[shrugs] We gave 'em something that'd never been done before on a VIC20, it fails to get past the selection process (i assume that's why it wasn't shown) and then i see people on AsmTV complaining about nothing new in the oldschool compo...

Just out of interest, why were there PC tunes in the oldschool music compo anyway?

yes, i agree with ryg.

Also i think if an entry gets out of the compo, the orgs should at least -and if is possible- show it out of it, at least for the makers to see their prod at the big screen. If this is not possible (f.e. no time, but i think that time always exists, just instead of showing the same demos again and again as other parties, show this new one), then the makers, should be prepared for the next party :-).

"so either it was submitted after the deadline or otherwise breaking the rules, or it didn't even end in the productions database for some reason."

I think "Chimera" by Halcyon was handled early enough, when they just write those words. the think their demo was preselected or something.

i thought the organizers maybe has lost the demo.
this could be happened. this is bad.

At the party demomakers must know what happens with their production before the demo compo starts.
they must know if their are disqualified, or if the demo got lost. IMHO

finally, i was not at assembly so i do not know what happened.

ile: That wasn't supposed to be said, believe me :)

my idea to prevent something like the more or less unfair compo at ms from happening is that one could at least plan to start the main compos not that late in the evening. (we all know it would be delayed :))
more compo-parts would be possible without everyone sleeping...

release your stuff at smaller parties and it will be played. there is more than MS and ASM on this planet. i mean. fuck. 50 demos in one party (MS2002). that's just too much. can't blame any org for that.

well. if the demo compo show starts at 8 o´clock. everything will be fine. so all 50 demos could be shown in 2 parts.

agree with ryg. you should not blame the preselectors, they have a very hard job.
And yes, demo compos should start earlier, just when it gets dark. At ms2002 i fell asleep during the first 25, and just got woken up by mates shouting 'unbelievable, have you seen that? this is crazy!' :( So for the second 25 i opted for a bed.
so guys, either start the compos earlier, or hire some guards to hit sleeping people hard with something big. :)

preselection itself is antidemocratic
how can you make a democratic preselection ?? sounds like electing a despot ..

actually when you're in a jury and the main organizer allready kinda preselect stuff before asking the jury .. it kinda loses the idea ..

ppl actually are satisfied with clean compos with only stuff that they can like (ms2k2 1st part .. asm democompo) ..

there are two worlds : competitions and demoscene, they sometimes are together, sometimes aren't ..

Florent - yes, exactly. Sometimes they are together, sometimes they aren't.

There was so much for me to say but that really is the crux of it.

why not adapt what exists in movie festivals, that is, being able to enter one's production in the competition or as an "outside competition" release. (that would be of course displayed on the main screen, but with a lot more time-flexibility)

we don't need winners in demoparties. we only want demos. a lot of demos. so no voting. no voting implies no namevoting, no preselection, no flamewar.

or applause-voting would be nice ... but no prizes, no ranks... we don't need them

I already said it, but in my mind, having competitions makes the scene ever closer in redneckness to tractor-pulling..