Sincere apologies
category: general [glöplog]
Before that whole wildcompo/kosmoplovci/nosfe/how-to-treat-art-when-you-step-on-it/etc topic goes out of hand...
I hereby want to apologize not only for cutting off the Kosmoplovci animation in the middle, but also having done it in such a unfair and shitty way.
The thing is, even after watching that particular video several times now, I find its artistic as well as technical quality and its general "art value" rather questionable. If I'd comment it here on pouet, it would be a sure thumb down - and normally I DO like minimal/noise/experimental stuff.
BUT: This is my personal opinion. And even if I share that opinion with big parts of the orga team and perhaps the majority of visitors, this is not enough to break one of the primary rules of party organizing: do not fuck with competition entries.
Sadly I did. It wasn't completely my idea, but I cannot deny that I was the person in charge. And this "let's get as many ppl on stage as possible" idea sounded just too funny... at least better than half of the hall moaning, booing and screaming for mercy.
So, my bad. Don't blame the whole orga team for that (in fact most of them already expressed their disagreement with my decision), the culprit is the beam team with me as their leader.
Apologies therefore go to Kosmoplovci for not showing their entry in full lenght, as well as to Nosfe for spoiling watching his own video (though I tried my best to do some damage control).
This will not happen again.
I hereby want to apologize not only for cutting off the Kosmoplovci animation in the middle, but also having done it in such a unfair and shitty way.
The thing is, even after watching that particular video several times now, I find its artistic as well as technical quality and its general "art value" rather questionable. If I'd comment it here on pouet, it would be a sure thumb down - and normally I DO like minimal/noise/experimental stuff.
BUT: This is my personal opinion. And even if I share that opinion with big parts of the orga team and perhaps the majority of visitors, this is not enough to break one of the primary rules of party organizing: do not fuck with competition entries.
Sadly I did. It wasn't completely my idea, but I cannot deny that I was the person in charge. And this "let's get as many ppl on stage as possible" idea sounded just too funny... at least better than half of the hall moaning, booing and screaming for mercy.
So, my bad. Don't blame the whole orga team for that (in fact most of them already expressed their disagreement with my decision), the culprit is the beam team with me as their leader.
Apologies therefore go to Kosmoplovci for not showing their entry in full lenght, as well as to Nosfe for spoiling watching his own video (though I tried my best to do some damage control).
This will not happen again.
i hope you will remember how to properly deal with similar situations in future for the parties to come and tell ppl to shut up or go smoke a cig for the next n minutes when they start booing a questionable prod.
i also hope other partyorgas also learned something from this.
good work organizing the party! this "small" incident was pretty much the only "weakness" you had during the whole event. respect for the work.
i also hope other partyorgas also learned something from this.
good work organizing the party! this "small" incident was pretty much the only "weakness" you had during the whole event. respect for the work.
now where's the preselection when you need it?
stuck in the previous millenium i hope.
the preselection unfortunately didnt weed out that silly lan-video entry with 3 year old "jokes" and that horrible "those were the days" bore.
Inercia Demoparty - where prods are never cutted (tm)
i think that video was more hated couz it came after the nosfe entry then if the incident never actually occured.
so in a way the incident not only destroyed first viewing experience of both kooi and nosfe's video but also killed the whole mood out of some ppl to be tolerant to the joke stuff.
oh well, damage has been done, the proper authorities have aknowledged how to make sure it doesnt happen again next year, lets hope they dont go assembly orga on us.
so in a way the incident not only destroyed first viewing experience of both kooi and nosfe's video but also killed the whole mood out of some ppl to be tolerant to the joke stuff.
oh well, damage has been done, the proper authorities have aknowledged how to make sure it doesnt happen again next year, lets hope they dont go assembly orga on us.
well i'm rather happy preselection worked fine with jml demo. I have nothing against such joke myself ( tho i find it absolutely stupid ), but it usually happens such 'art' becomes too popular when shown once.
evil: mwahahaha!!!! (i wonder if that'll attract or repel sceners actually :D lol)
it must be the most bestest demoparty where prods are not cutted ;)
Well preselection worked its wonders on the streaming music compo though.. only 13 entries heard.. and well.. it ruled out my entry for the second year in a row.. So I guess I'm a little bitter about it.
But anyhow, my opinion is that whatever the technical, artistical or quality merit of a production, the people behind it have spent a good load of time producing it, sometimes straining themselves to catch deadlines.. paid a good amount of money for plane tickets, party tickets, hotel reservations etc and brought their products to CONTRIBUTE to the party in question.. not to mention that they mostly sit and view/listen/appreciate the work of the other fellow sceners' work that is shown on the big screen.
It is therefore a good and respectful practice to show all submitted productions to their full length (as long as they abide to the limits posed by the rules). And if you don't like what you see/hear.. either be patient.. or go have a smoke, a beer or whatever until it finishes.
Oh.. and in the future, when a person who's production has been ruled out in the preselection stage asks why only 13 entries, don't answer "because the rest were crap". It only feels like twisting the knife deeper.
But anyhow, my opinion is that whatever the technical, artistical or quality merit of a production, the people behind it have spent a good load of time producing it, sometimes straining themselves to catch deadlines.. paid a good amount of money for plane tickets, party tickets, hotel reservations etc and brought their products to CONTRIBUTE to the party in question.. not to mention that they mostly sit and view/listen/appreciate the work of the other fellow sceners' work that is shown on the big screen.
It is therefore a good and respectful practice to show all submitted productions to their full length (as long as they abide to the limits posed by the rules). And if you don't like what you see/hear.. either be patient.. or go have a smoke, a beer or whatever until it finishes.
Oh.. and in the future, when a person who's production has been ruled out in the preselection stage asks why only 13 entries, don't answer "because the rest were crap". It only feels like twisting the knife deeper.
I rarely like prods that abuse of bliking images and noisy sounds, but must agree with aMUSIC in that is important to respect the work of their creators in all entries.
Must say that it was a concrete incident that is far from be enough to say that the party organization was bad, which imho was a very good and in some aspects was absolutelly amazing (like food and beer prizing or the cleaning of the WCs)
Just add that I found that "the rest were crap" sentence a very politically incorrect way to say things. Hope things like these never happen again.
Must say that it was a concrete incident that is far from be enough to say that the party organization was bad, which imho was a very good and in some aspects was absolutelly amazing (like food and beer prizing or the cleaning of the WCs)
Just add that I found that "the rest were crap" sentence a very politically incorrect way to say things. Hope things like these never happen again.
Odd as it may seem, because of this incident, there may be better understanding... Certainly anyone saying 'you can't make art with noise' can be pointed here to people who say 'yes, yes it can. Here's some that I happen to like. And here's some I don't get.'
amusic: oh you're one of those utopians who believes music compos will ever be done properly? i have given up on that. its part of scene spirit to have totally absurd/biased music compo results and half of the good tracks not played. i've given up on trying to convince any orgas of that fact.
i can understand the time problems that it harnasses to present all music delivered to a big party though, even only accepting tracks from ppl present they usually get shitloads of tracks, sometimes making it impossible to listen with intent to vote without getting bored. solutions floated around diferent having diferent compos for diferent styles and specs but ppl just started doing entries for both compos in reply and having less music compos is just unnaceptable because you really cant put together oldskool with newschool into just 1 category, technical diferences would make the judging even more horrible (genre diferences already destroy too much of the unbiasedness, no need to add insult to injury)
music play shouldnt be participating in public compos to begin with anyways.
and there is no way your average party goer will want to listen to 20+ newb/bizare tracks then to go outside and check out the mad familiar sounds coming out of the boombox. life is complex. :p
i can understand the time problems that it harnasses to present all music delivered to a big party though, even only accepting tracks from ppl present they usually get shitloads of tracks, sometimes making it impossible to listen with intent to vote without getting bored. solutions floated around diferent having diferent compos for diferent styles and specs but ppl just started doing entries for both compos in reply and having less music compos is just unnaceptable because you really cant put together oldskool with newschool into just 1 category, technical diferences would make the judging even more horrible (genre diferences already destroy too much of the unbiasedness, no need to add insult to injury)
music play shouldnt be participating in public compos to begin with anyways.
and there is no way your average party goer will want to listen to 20+ newb/bizare tracks then to go outside and check out the mad familiar sounds coming out of the boombox. life is complex. :p
still regarding music compos:
maybe its worth a shot to destroy the jury preselection in it and simply release all tracks to public who would listen to them on their computers and vote, having the audience directly decide which - lets say 5 entries - would get played before the prize giving ceremony...
so everything would always get released and listened to by whomever cares to check out music compos.
it might work, and then again it might not.
maybe giving more voting power to the "oldskool sceners" who vote on these categories, to help the quality surface and hopefully kill the biasedness (it prolly wont help on the latter, leet drunk sceners are known to not be very unbiased...)
just a few thoughts..
maybe its worth a shot to destroy the jury preselection in it and simply release all tracks to public who would listen to them on their computers and vote, having the audience directly decide which - lets say 5 entries - would get played before the prize giving ceremony...
so everything would always get released and listened to by whomever cares to check out music compos.
it might work, and then again it might not.
maybe giving more voting power to the "oldskool sceners" who vote on these categories, to help the quality surface and hopefully kill the biasedness (it prolly wont help on the latter, leet drunk sceners are known to not be very unbiased...)
just a few thoughts..
those 5 entries would be played in compo winner results kinda fashion obviously.. just ensuring ppl get that a second voting wouldnt need to happen.
Sorry, if something appears crap to others they are just free to booh or shout things like 'langweilig'. As well as you are free to thumb down any production in here. Just accept critics as it comes. And anyway, its like things go, we all have to sustain noise experiments again and again, you have to sustain fecal experiments again and again, and we have to sustain tunnelflights and tentakelballs again and again. Do we really all want to hold hands during party all the time and brown-nose others and praise their shit? The world is colourful, different and sometimes unharmonic and provocative.
Second ps on the 'release all prods to the public' as soon as the compo is over. People can listen/watch for themselves if they believe they lost out on something. I believe tUM was rather good in this respect?
This will also give an ending to my long 'release all prods as shown / played' crusade.
This will also give an ending to my long 'release all prods as shown / played' crusade.
Or split the compo up in blocks of ½ - 1 hour?
bitbreaker: no, no, that's not what people are saying.
People are saying they are upset because of the cutting of the production. We're saying show the pressewurst productions, the noise productions, and the scroll productions cuz they're part of it all. Cutting them isn't something we agree with, provided they meet certain already agreed to standards (laws, etc.)
yelling boo? yeah, gonna happen.
Stopping productions in the middle because some people decide they know more than the rest of us what we like? Well, let's just say I know a certain country that likes to do that kinda shit, and say that people there are more free. I think we all know that bullshit doesn't fly in the scene.
People are saying they are upset because of the cutting of the production. We're saying show the pressewurst productions, the noise productions, and the scroll productions cuz they're part of it all. Cutting them isn't something we agree with, provided they meet certain already agreed to standards (laws, etc.)
yelling boo? yeah, gonna happen.
Stopping productions in the middle because some people decide they know more than the rest of us what we like? Well, let's just say I know a certain country that likes to do that kinda shit, and say that people there are more free. I think we all know that bullshit doesn't fly in the scene.
it's like this.
10 people went on stage, 600 others didnt.
you do the math.
10 people went on stage, 600 others didnt.
you do the math.
Gargaj: Democracy sucks :)
for music i find it understandable that the 'preselecting jury' picks a certain amount of songs from the 80+ entries (or how many the fuck it are) and plays those. Music is bloody subjective. And i for once absolutely don't want to sit through a four hour reasontrance compo!
for wild demos it's a bit hard.. people generally put more work in it, but the 20+ entry animation compo at bp this year bored and annoyed me to fucking tears, even destroying the experience of the proper once. if it was up to me i'd ban all 'joke' entries from those compos. make something decent or make nothing at all!
for wild demos it's a bit hard.. people generally put more work in it, but the 20+ entry animation compo at bp this year bored and annoyed me to fucking tears, even destroying the experience of the proper once. if it was up to me i'd ban all 'joke' entries from those compos. make something decent or make nothing at all!
Define decent. So that is what all want to see, only decent stuff? Is it just your taste, or the taste of the masses? Everyones taste? That would have meant also no 'Schinken' in this years case? Why should funny entries thrown out? That we all bore to death even more? Why has a decent entry more right of existence than a joke entry? Face it, all kind of different people do all kind of different stuff. Keep the compos clean and mainstream or what? Yo motha!
fair enough, having a laugh during a compo is great,that's why i put joke in quotes, a good joke entry is awesome, but this year i saw a shitload of crap we've seen over and over again. Sorry, might be personal, but a fucking bluescreen error is not funny anymore (i know, that was democompo, fuck it) same with that videogame nonsense we've seen before (and which was way too fucking long).
but indeed, it's only fair to show it all, if you don't like it you can always go outside and have a beer.
but indeed, it's only fair to show it all, if you don't like it you can always go outside and have a beer.