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numen by Taquart
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added on the 2003-03-18 19:31:32 by raver  |
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comments
the best ATARi8 demo ever !
rulez added on the 2003-03-18 21:45:24 by podo 
It require a killing XL configuration (will not work on basic 64k XL systems), but is definitevely a most see.
6502 rulez, specialy at 1.79 mhz :)
6502 rulez, specialy at 1.79 mhz :)
damn hot.
I don't know all that much about the hardware limits of the XL platform, but for an 8-bit demo it sure looks impressive!
See it live at Forever.. in atari demoshow.. which was after compos.. it was the only demo they shown.. ;-) And that was really enough ;-)))))))))) Fabulous!
unbelievable indeed. ATARI ROXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOOORZZ!!
oops, i meant thumb
Really, really, really, really impressive and huge demo!!!
Numen was part of a really interesting atari event year. The scene seems to be reborn when numen was shown at Lato Ludzików. Numen consequential uses modern techniques and almost every known xl/xe potential. Probably this nice piece of software is the only proof for the real power of atari xl/xe, wich was always known to be a computer which was not as good as the c64. I know this computer now for about 20 years. And almost every 8bit fan would say, that there were only a few titles on this platform which were really superb (mostly when xl/xe was the primary target to be developed).
Today, people know much more about the hardware and the real stength, which is provided by atari even in the year 1978 (as the xl/xe models were up to 90% the same hardware as the old 400/800 hardware). As a non-coder I hope, that this title will just be the start of upcoming demos in near future. Then the XL/XE platform will be on a position where it should be all the time before: somewhere between C64 and Amiga.
Today, people know much more about the hardware and the real stength, which is provided by atari even in the year 1978 (as the xl/xe models were up to 90% the same hardware as the old 400/800 hardware). As a non-coder I hope, that this title will just be the start of upcoming demos in near future. Then the XL/XE platform will be on a position where it should be all the time before: somewhere between C64 and Amiga.
awesome. bsp doom worlds on 6502.. eat that!! the other fx are marvellous as well. timing seems slick, gfx and music match.
yeah, this is truly a masterpiece of code. they pushed the limits.
yeah, this is truly a masterpiece of code. they pushed the limits.
taquart breaks your balls :D
NUMEN is simply the best Demo on ATARI XL/XE . I mostly like the lightning-effects. 256 colors are making it possible
avi anywhere?
what can i say... this is a masterpiece, numen rocks, taquart are the gods of atari 8bit, period.
pete, not any avi's afaik, but it runs quite well on the Atari800WinPLus emulator
http://atariarea.nostalgia.pl/PLus/index_us.htm
pete, not any avi's afaik, but it runs quite well on the Atari800WinPLus emulator
http://atariarea.nostalgia.pl/PLus/index_us.htm
Thanks Havoc. This is some crazy code! I personally think the bsp worlds are ugly though.
it's really outstanding from most of the xl/xe demos i've seen before (right, i said that last year aswell - my opinion didn't change =)
thanks for all comments! the guys did a very good job! an AVI is a good idea! i'll check
more infos:
http://numen.scene.pl
Heaven/TQA
more infos:
http://numen.scene.pl
Heaven/TQA
japp. no more comments on it?! This is the most shocking demo ever made in xl/xe ... so if you don't know it: WHY ARE YOU WAITING!
For those that enjoyed the demo, please see:
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=10648
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=10648
kickass! best prod ever.
When I saw my first demo ever in late 1988 (Revenge of Magnus) I was amazed by the efx included in. After a couple of years I was blown away by WFMH's The Top series. Later I was surised by some Shadows, Slight, Tqa prods, but when In 2oo3 I saw Numen.... Do not know what to say. For sure I will NOT say "it is the best demo ever" cause a human (and machine) potential probably will bring in the future to the light a new demo (I hope so), which will once again made us dizzy. I wonder if this demo was written (enteriely?) on PC so is that why it was possible to achieve such astonishing results? But what really counts are the final effects of the demo and those are the most impressive I have ever seen on small Atari (well, mirror scroll in RoM still rules!=). Brievly, my hat off my head dudes.
you guys must be crazy!
absolutely amazing, though would have been nicer if you hadn't used the wolfenstein-part that often and that long... it rocks technically-wise, but gets boring (the wolfenstein-part)
apart from that, it's just pure magic (better say antic magic ;)
absolutely amazing, though would have been nicer if you hadn't used the wolfenstein-part that often and that long... it rocks technically-wise, but gets boring (the wolfenstein-part)
apart from that, it's just pure magic (better say antic magic ;)
AWESOME
Totally and utterly rules.
UNREAL
great music, cool effects, ugly gfx and that wolfenstein part is boring. but all in all, roxxorz!
Truly one of the best demos for Atari !
Best demo in any 8bit machine ever!!!
Atari !!!
holy shite. a real doom engine on 6502!!! if i knew how to code i would turn it into a real game... some of the other fx are nice too, but the doom egine is def. the kicker here.
Best 8-bit demo on all platforms!
Yes it rules.
WOW!
Very very good, abused a bit of table-tunnels but anyways the bumpmaps were really well done and towards the end there were some high-res vectors which I'm sure were not exactly easy to do ;) And the jisawed tunel just ruled :))))
I had a hard time convincing me that this was running on a 8bit machine.. before I looked at the source :)
Unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
wow, really fantastic 8 bit demo
great
YES! But we want more, More, MORE! :)
Can only give one thumb up, for shame ;-)
It even runs sweetly on emulator, specifically the Atari 800 port to Falcon CT60, which is a major coding feat, considering how jittery that emulator can get with a lot of stuff.
Kudos to Taquart and the Polski Atari 8-bit scene in general!
It even runs sweetly on emulator, specifically the Atari 800 port to Falcon CT60, which is a major coding feat, considering how jittery that emulator can get with a lot of stuff.
Kudos to Taquart and the Polski Atari 8-bit scene in general!
All thumbs I have for this 8Bit Masterpiece.
600XL, 800XL with build-in BASIC and an expansion port have been the rulors in 1982.
Still seeing demos for it is fantastic!
600XL, 800XL with build-in BASIC and an expansion port have been the rulors in 1982.
Still seeing demos for it is fantastic!
Rulez! Nothing more to say!! :-)) Best prod ever on this small machine!!
It's amazing what some people can do with less than 2 mhz when some others can't code decent looking stuff with 2 ghz ;)
and as usual, X-Ray's tune is awesome.
and as usual, X-Ray's tune is awesome.
Grows with each re-watch! <3
Hellya... another one missed to thumb up! This one rocks so much! The best XL demo ever!
/me seen lately on emu. roxxz! /|\
thus wolfenstein boring indeed.
thus wolfenstein boring indeed.
Awesome! The rubics cube is excellent.
perverts
link is broken :( anyone can send this to me pls?
mahtiaivo: link works fine here, try again, it might have been temporarily down :)
A superb demo that manage to put to shame some demos running on better computers. The very best 8 bit demo IMHO.
Excellent!
i seen this and its fucking good! taquart rules ;)
Highly inspirational!! Very schizophrenic, especially the FPRPG scenes which gives it CDCability... and the soundtrack... and all that hardcore math things running... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!1111hundredandeleven
It even teaches you how to speedsolve a rubik's cube!!
It even teaches you how to speedsolve a rubik's cube!!
Quote:
Today, people know much more about the hardware and the real stength, which is provided by atari even in the year 1978 (as the xl/xe models were up to 90% the same hardware as the old 400/800 hardware). As a non-coder I hope, that this title will just be the start of upcoming demos in near future. Then the XL/XE platform will be on a position where it should be all the time before: somewhere between C64 and Amiga.
Hmm.. don't forget that this demo requires a (for the age of the machine) massive RAM upgrade. I'd be intrested to know how much of this demo an unexpanded 64k atari 8 bit machine could do, and how much a C64 could do with a similar amount of RAM. (i'm presuming here that the atari ram expansions are not like the C64 REU ones, which are more like RAM disk than actual RAM).
(i'm not putting down this demo or atari 8 bits, btw, which both rule).
xeron: i'm not uptodate with specs of "C64 REU" expansions... but what i can tell you is that atari8 uses a fairly simple bankswitching method to address more than 64k RAM.
also, i guess it's useful to note that memory expansions have been commonplace in the atari8 scene for a very, very long time now. atari itself released a 128k XE (the 130XE), other vendors sold 256k and larger expansions in the early 80's already.
as for comparing c64 and atari8... well it should be obvious to anyone who can read that the atari8 has better specifications than c64 in almost all aspects. it's a lot like comparing amiga and atari st... but with reversed roles for the companies involved ;)
also, i guess it's useful to note that memory expansions have been commonplace in the atari8 scene for a very, very long time now. atari itself released a 128k XE (the 130XE), other vendors sold 256k and larger expansions in the early 80's already.
as for comparing c64 and atari8... well it should be obvious to anyone who can read that the atari8 has better specifications than c64 in almost all aspects. it's a lot like comparing amiga and atari st... but with reversed roles for the companies involved ;)
havoc,you sound like when speccy users tell the c64 colors sucks, because they arent like their oversaturated rgb puke :)
better in almost all aspects right ? especially in the sound, sprite and the nr of colors/scanline in high resolutions department :D lol.
better in almost all aspects right ? especially in the sound, sprite and the nr of colors/scanline in high resolutions department :D lol.
oswald <3
i got bored of that discussion way back in 1989, but it's still entertaining some i guess ;)
i got bored of that discussion way back in 1989, but it's still entertaining some i guess ;)
dear havoc, numen rulez, but spreading lies about the c64 sucks.
@oswald:
Spreading lies about Atari XL/XE sucks too! I'm also getting tired of that discussion about RAM expansions on the 8bit atari, esp. when c64 folks come into this discussion. the 8bit atari was designed for highest flexibility on RAM expansion right from the beginning in the late 70s. this is no hack and/or some kind of illegal way of "pimp my machine". every single NUMEN effect could be realized with a plain 64KB machine. but the demo makers preferred to load first all the code into memory and let it running without interruptions and waiting times for disk I/O.
to use your words:
I'd be interested to know how much of this demo a C64 could do, and how much an 64KB 8bit Atari could do, when it only would have the ability to load from disk while the music is playing and let the floppy cpu calculate in parallel.
\twh
Spreading lies about Atari XL/XE sucks too! I'm also getting tired of that discussion about RAM expansions on the 8bit atari, esp. when c64 folks come into this discussion. the 8bit atari was designed for highest flexibility on RAM expansion right from the beginning in the late 70s. this is no hack and/or some kind of illegal way of "pimp my machine". every single NUMEN effect could be realized with a plain 64KB machine. but the demo makers preferred to load first all the code into memory and let it running without interruptions and waiting times for disk I/O.
to use your words:
I'd be interested to know how much of this demo a C64 could do, and how much an 64KB 8bit Atari could do, when it only would have the ability to load from disk while the music is playing and let the floppy cpu calculate in parallel.
\twh
twh: how about not putting words in other people's mouth.
The demo is nice, but it's really a shame I can't run it on my Atari 800XL. And the point with the 320kB RAM-expansion is that you're not running this demo on a "basic" machine, but an expanded one, no matter how many users have that particular expansion (a bit like the sidcard on the plus4).
I'd be much more impressed by the demo if it actually ran on my machine. Hell, I wouldn't mind if it required an 130XE =)
The demo is nice, but it's really a shame I can't run it on my Atari 800XL. And the point with the 320kB RAM-expansion is that you're not running this demo on a "basic" machine, but an expanded one, no matter how many users have that particular expansion (a bit like the sidcard on the plus4).
I'd be much more impressed by the demo if it actually ran on my machine. Hell, I wouldn't mind if it required an 130XE =)
i'm also against using non-standard hardware. nowadays, on aga amiga, atari8, msx and even sometimes on falcon it's the normal way to do things.
eru once said in an interview that this demo could have been done on 64KB but the design would be a problem. this is what twh talks about: the loading times. i guess i still prefer it the 320 KB way, even if, i will never see it on my own 800 XL indeed..
eru once said in an interview that this demo could have been done on 64KB but the design would be a problem. this is what twh talks about: the loading times. i guess i still prefer it the 320 KB way, even if, i will never see it on my own 800 XL indeed..
Oh, and I forgot my thumb
I don't really get the point of all the discussion about ram usage, but ok . here we go. i just compiled and bundled every single effect used in the numen demo including the vector game engine which you can run on every 8bit Atari XL/XE. download link here:
http://twh.homelinux.org/numen_800xl.zip
Like I said. Not a single effect needs an upgraded Atari by itself. I even think that it wouldn't be a big deal to create a 64KB version which however must interrupt music and loads the next part from disk. if one is interested he could do this his own using the freely available numen sources at http://numen.scene.pl/ .
http://twh.homelinux.org/numen_800xl.zip
Like I said. Not a single effect needs an upgraded Atari by itself. I even think that it wouldn't be a big deal to create a 64KB version which however must interrupt music and loads the next part from disk. if one is interested he could do this his own using the freely available numen sources at http://numen.scene.pl/ .
twh,
at desert dream most of our effects run about 20-30% slower because we trade that speed for loading. This is the point against using 320kb ram. you dont need to load and compensate for that like we do. You just throw part after part on the screens.
a c64 can do all of this (but slower) since its the same cpu (but slower) and you said all routines can run in 64kb.
at desert dream most of our effects run about 20-30% slower because we trade that speed for loading. This is the point against using 320kb ram. you dont need to load and compensate for that like we do. You just throw part after part on the screens.
a c64 can do all of this (but slower) since its the same cpu (but slower) and you said all routines can run in 64kb.
It has always annoyed me to death that I own three different A8 computers but cannot watch any demos after 1995. A demo should work on the standard hardware, and sorry: Standard is NOT what a few members of the demo scene have. On C64 any gamer can take his 1983 C64 from the basement and start watching demos, or anyone can buy any C64 from eBay and do it. But on A8 this is not possible. The scene cripples itself down to the core scene members by requiring wild hacked hardware addons. And no, desoldering of the original DRAMs, ordering some weirdo homebrew RAM expansion from poland and soldering it into your computer is not "highest flexibility on RAM expansion right from the beginning". On C64 you simply plug your original Commodore RAM expansion to the expansion port and have your +128, +256 or +512k.
twh wrote: "atari itself released a 128k XE (the 130XE)"
Yes sure, and Commodore released the C128. Do C64 demos require 128k now? No.
twh wrote: "Not a single effect needs an upgraded Atari by itself"
The music needs it, and the "demo flow". That's actually two very important things in a demo. Easily as important as the effects themselves.
I know that loading with music is quite troublesome for the coder and the guy who's doing the music since only 2 channels are useable during loading, but that is the restriction of the A8 and you have to live with it. At the moment it's more like "we don't actually like the original A8 hardware, so we modify it until we like it".
twh wrote: "I'd be interested to know how much of this demo a C64 could do"
Like Oswald said: Everything but slower. This demo is an A8 demo, don't expect it to work as good on C64. This is also the reason why nobody has ported it to C64 yet. It would only show the weaknesses of the C64 and none of it's strengths, and the people at AtariAge most certainly would use the port to bash the C64 :D . There's also a number of C64 demos which wouldn't port good to A8 :)
Anyway, apart from this discussion still thumb up for the demo itself.
twh wrote: "atari itself released a 128k XE (the 130XE)"
Yes sure, and Commodore released the C128. Do C64 demos require 128k now? No.
twh wrote: "Not a single effect needs an upgraded Atari by itself"
The music needs it, and the "demo flow". That's actually two very important things in a demo. Easily as important as the effects themselves.
I know that loading with music is quite troublesome for the coder and the guy who's doing the music since only 2 channels are useable during loading, but that is the restriction of the A8 and you have to live with it. At the moment it's more like "we don't actually like the original A8 hardware, so we modify it until we like it".
twh wrote: "I'd be interested to know how much of this demo a C64 could do"
Like Oswald said: Everything but slower. This demo is an A8 demo, don't expect it to work as good on C64. This is also the reason why nobody has ported it to C64 yet. It would only show the weaknesses of the C64 and none of it's strengths, and the people at AtariAge most certainly would use the port to bash the C64 :D . There's also a number of C64 demos which wouldn't port good to A8 :)
Anyway, apart from this discussion still thumb up for the demo itself.
c64 zealots... pathetic! :(
if you had any sense of respect, you'd discuss this in a bbs thread, so people can properly ignore your whining...
if you had any sense of respect, you'd discuss this in a bbs thread, so people can properly ignore your whining...
???
Whatever.
Whatever.
havoc, you started the whining, because you cant stand the c64 superiority :)
Insane...
This demo rocks.
And Oswald - c64 colors DO SUCK. And they DO look like puke. Every human draw on C64 looks like dead. For quite a long time.
Regardless of fact your head will explode while reading some true. Even if it harsh.
And Oswald - c64 colors DO SUCK. And they DO look like puke. Every human draw on C64 looks like dead. For quite a long time.
Regardless of fact your head will explode while reading some true. Even if it harsh.
wtf? IMPOSSIBLE!
this demo is indeed incredibly good!
nice combination of "newschool" 3d flyby ;) and oldschool 1 frame effects..
Regarding the 320k discussion: I may not know much about the XL/XE but I got the impression that the memory expansion is kind of standard similar to the 512k fakefast expansion on the Amiga500 !?
nice combination of "newschool" 3d flyby ;) and oldschool 1 frame effects..
Regarding the 320k discussion: I may not know much about the XL/XE but I got the impression that the memory expansion is kind of standard similar to the 512k fakefast expansion on the Amiga500 !?
fantastic demo. big thumbzzzz...
"And Oswald - c64 colors DO SUCK. And they DO look like puke. Every human draw on C64 looks like dead. For quite a long time."
you atari guys must have a strange love towards dead people as you have ripped a lot of c64 gfx of "dead humans" including the color scheme. using them as a show off for your machines capabilities.
check the graph2font gallery man, I can point out more than 2 dozens c64 rippoffs :)
you atari guys must have a strange love towards dead people as you have ripped a lot of c64 gfx of "dead humans" including the color scheme. using them as a show off for your machines capabilities.
check the graph2font gallery man, I can point out more than 2 dozens c64 rippoffs :)
So what. New-Skool-Demos need the latest graphics card to run smoothly and old-skool demos needs RAM expansion. If ATARI 8-Bit needs a special 64k department, because it can do more, it speaks for the system.
THUMB!
THUMB!
yeah, superior machines usually "needs" HW upgrades to be able to pull of a trackmo :)
ruling stuff !
OMG! it is incredible! It's best what i see on ATARI!
Some very kickass fx for an 8bit computer, although the slow flatshaded 3d world scenes were kinda boring.
incredible shit.!
rulez, too bad the video isn't full.
I am not sure if we had this already posted...
but you find the Numen FX running on 64k machines here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=108939&st=25
so as Eru/Fox always said...the extended mempory is used for loading.
but you find the Numen FX running on 64k machines here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=108939&st=25
so as Eru/Fox always said...the extended mempory is used for loading.
well... ;) i my fault...i just tried some of the FX and they show not all gfx on 64k machines...on 128k machines some more fx run... so it seems not 100% true that the fx can be run on 64k machines... (without a rewrite). ;)
@Oswald
The C64 "ripoffs" in the G2F Gallery are done because of their "historical" meaning.
The modern pictures (FLI and else) are not worthy to "rip" , because they are more than "off" ;-) by the used colours and style.
The C64 "ripoffs" in the G2F Gallery are done because of their "historical" meaning.
The modern pictures (FLI and else) are not worthy to "rip" , because they are more than "off" ;-) by the used colours and style.
My cheap "Jack Tramiel 130XE" 64k RAM chips have finally died last week \o/ Perfect excuse to "repair" it with 320kB and finally watch this on real hardware!!
Absolute master piece (at least in teh emu)
Absolute master piece (at least in teh emu)
cool demo (didn´t like the 3d world scenes though)
Oh my god! Fabulous work...
some effects good, some bad, some ugly ;-)
Best 8 bit demo ever !!
Marvellous.
Nice. But would be even better if standard Atari 8 bit.
This demo impressed me very much when I've seen it for first time, I didn't expected that XL/XE is capable for this.
OMFG
what a show!
what a show!
i've seen this at riverwash, fucking great
too slow in some parts but still... massive!
Holy Cow!
Great demo! It's awesome!
Awe!!
Absolutely impressive!
SELECT * FROM `comment` WHERE `value` LIKE '%OMFG%'
Great and impressive demo! Superprod! With interesting history.
Cool demo saw this at the end of retrogathering 2011 with bnicke
massive.
Marvelous!
grat tune and nice 3D ;)
Cool !
phenomenal demo
!!! ♥
awesome demo and totally awesome music
simply excellent in every aspect
two words: holy shit!
I had forgotten just how good this is. I'd give it a second thumbs up if I could :) Love the music.
Amazing 3D engine, which seems to have been used to its full extent here - the camera paths and the scenery are very cleverly done and it is by no means a simple fly-through. The sprites are especially cool. Nice music too.
8-bits are enough
That's some incredibly hardcore Atari 8-bit banging.
Forgot to thumb this up, this prod got me into the Atari scene
Totally unreal!
pretty awesome achievement, rocking 8bit demo!
Oh my god I love this prod so much.
The best demo I've seen on this machine! Impressive Doom engine!
One of the top 5 8bit demo ever IMHO. Very impressive stuff.
yes!
GR8 DEMO!:)
Best 8 bit demo ever !!
the best atari xl/xe demo.
Amazing demo! Just saw it for the first time this weekend and wow, what a great prod!
Massive! The dancer, 2d-puzzle-tunnel, and credz were my favorite parts, but it is solid throughout.
Forgotten thumb for the great demo!
Is it in G? Is it?
Quote:
Is it in G? Is it?
Sam jesteś in G.
Quote:
The other four being?One of the top 5 8bit demo ever IMHO. Very impressive stuff.
Edge of Disgrace
Batman Forever
8088MPH
and one more
Batman Forever
8088MPH
and one more
Wow. Very nice ideas. This on really rocks!
Here comes forgotten thumb!
wwwtf
Classic
Can watch it forever.
Just incredible !
One of undeniable Atari milestones <3
There are classic demos, and then there are demos that can be played at every 8-bit demoparty for the last 15-odd years and still have you going "wait, I don't remember seeing that part before...? That's awesome."
technically still number 1
obviously thumb up
bad ass! The 3d vector worlds rule, the rubik's cube is insane and the soundtrack is strong
Epic!
top
Imagine this on the demodisk back then (ok, with lotsa RAM)... ;)
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